Do women see good guys as losers? (12,932 reads)

1. Anette left...

Really... I would not call this nice guys, these are nerd`s. They would be the oposite of a bad guy, but with nice guys put in the middle. These are the cind of mamas boys that needs to find some girl that is the same way as themselves, or it will never work out. I must say dating a nice guy is not as bad as dating one of the guys you describe. They are horrible, nice guys are just a bit boring, and needs a push.

Visit me @ http://anette.blog-city.com
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Hi
I found this list on line and it's not my own.It was written by a woman. I think the definition of a NICE GUY needs more clarification.
Thanks Anette
Dave

2. a reader left...

AMEN!

It's a scary to think that i used to be that way. Maybe not as bad as the entire text but very much like it.

I'd like to know how you (being a woman) got that conclusion?

Good stuff.
Peace.

Carlos Canelo [cane lin6@hotmail.com]
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Hi

A ctually I'm a "guy" who studies human behavior. The list of nice guy faults was of course written by a woman who hates nice guys just they way you did.

Dave

3. a reader left...

First. I think the term "nice guy" has to be defined. Dr. Glover in his book "No more mr. nice guy" has a very accurate definition. http://nomoremrniceguy.com/ngs.php

Second. I don't hate "nice guys". I just feel sorry for them for not taking control of their lives and still hope to find some magic recipe for happiness.

To stop being a "nice guy" doesn't mean to start to being a jerk. It means to take responsability for your actions and the way you live your life. It is stop expecting other people to provide you with the happiness you crave. Is to take care of your needs first without forgetting those of the ones you love.

And that is the opposite of a "nice guy"
Peace out.

Carlos

4. a reader left...

i totally disagree. i've actually read No More Mr. Nice Guy and gave it to one of my "bad boy" friends. i think there are elements of your definition that are true...but slightly exaggerated. Nice guys are...surprising. They do have thier own opinions, lives, and thoughts. But they just don't think anyone would find it interesting enough for anyone to want to know. And when a girl has an open mind and is truly interested in getting to know a nice guy, they may be surprised to find someone who is quiet and shy actually is pretty funny and interesting. There are too few nice guys out there for any girl to go around bashing them and making them ashamed of who they are. Girls don't tolerate and always complain that men don't like them just for who they are. There shouldn't be a double standard in loving and accepting people for who they are. Nice guys are simply that...nice.

mari [n843gyrl4ev a@yahoo.com]
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Than x for commenting

I think you are in a minority of women who would give a nice guy a chance. By the way this list was written by a woman.

5. sarah left...

IF IF IF this article represented what a "nice' guy REALLY was then I wouldn't want a nice guy either. What I heard being described was an insecure, non-growing, suffocating, cowering man. That is NOT my idea of a nice man. I believe a man could be like that and still be nice to a woman, but he would be pretty uninteresting. What a lot of these "nice guy" articles leave out is that a guy can be a nice and have that"bad boy" image that many women love. I may get a lot of flack here, but I think many of these articles are written by men or women who are looking for excuses as to why they have no partner, when it just may be that they need to do a little personal improvement themselves.

Sarah

Visit me @ http://www.alookatsarah.blog-city.com
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Unfortunately in the past several years the label NICE GUY has migrated into a new meaning. It used to mean that a man was polite and considerate and it still is that to many people. But since the start of the woman’s movement it has come to also mean a man is a wimp or Wussy. The meaning of this label is now frequently confused.

6. a reader left...

The reason why some people don't understand the concept is because the tend to take the word "nice" for what it means. But in this case a "NICE guy" means a behavior pattern which sometimes ends up being anything but nice.

Go to nomoremrniceguy.com and you'll find what the term "nice guy" means in this article.

Carlos
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Carlos

That's correct and thank you

Dave

7. a reader left...

I feel sorry for you, you are going to go through life without ever finding a meaningful relationship.
You have taken the term 'nice' way out of context.A person can be nice without being insecure and totally dependant on another.
This argument only proves how insecure you are about yourself, you believe that you cannot satisfy a nice guy, that looks to you for support and love, and instead of seeking help about your own issues you condemn any guy that has ever heard the line 'lets be just friends'.

Andrew

8. a reader left...

i think,everythinkg said about mr nice guys is right. And nice guy are pschos cos they don't think straight and so lose ai all relatonships

michael [bmcaxton@yahoo.com]

9. a reader left...

True I think men tend to look at relationships ( when they are ready too settle down ) in a logical manner one who meet their emotional , mental and yes physical needs . women however tend to look at things that are outside the person. social , finacial they too look at the other 3 but they tend to take a back seat . They will marry the stable provider type but the one they think about when they pull the vibrater out is the guy they they dated in their 20's who was in and out of jail , lived with his mom at 28 held a job for nolonger than 2 weeks at a time the father of her fist 2 kids etc etc ( ive heard this story from many women ).
point being there are 2 kinds of men that attract women one type is the early 20's bad boy type as depicted earlier because they are fun to be with the life of the party so to speak . then there is the sucsessful jerk and many jerks are sucsessful because they are more willing to screw poeple over to climb to the top on their dagger filled backs ( thats why most bosses are assholes ) . so what about the guy inbetween the 2 extremes ? the guy who is stable but broke ( after paying his bills ) who treats a woman with kindness he is no challange so dismissed until one or two of the 2 jerk types have had their way with her . so if your a nice guy all you have to look forward to is a single mother who has been through the wringer rode hard and put up wet . and guys know that they are plan B . we just wonder why women dont go for nice guys until their life hits the toilet . nice guys it seems do get the leftovers .

mortalez [mortalez@spymac.com]

10. a reader left...

geez when did love become a foriegn concept ?
To be honest I too have been called needy in the past. my answer is if a woman is into you she will want you to be around , if you are into a woman you will want her around , if not do you and her a favor and run like hell or better yet dont get involved in the first place . to many people dont want relationships they want freinds with benifits . if all you think being involved is is going out every ounce in a while talking once a day maybe for a few minutes at a time . or hooking up AFTER you've hung out with friends all day . or call your girl/boyfriend as an after thought then you dont need to be in a relationship . stay single and alone and dont put the people who want a REAL relationship through your shit and heartbreak . I've never understood a womans attraction to men who dont want them .
I hear all the time women complain about how their man wont spend time with them then when they meet one that will they call him needy .
these guys have feelings too even though us men are taught not to express them . and being a cold heartless bitch is a good way to create future morgue residents . so if you dont like a guy dont get in a relationship with him . if you would rather be with your friends then stay with your friends and leave guys alone. funny the women who have called me clingy were mostly women who started the relationship in the first place and me being a faithful type guy will show my effection . Too bad it was wasted on women who were ready for a real relationship .

m

11. a reader left...

Wow, i fall into this catogary, i'm gonna have to start making some hard changes in life, i'm 18 & i have NEVER had a girl friend in my entire life.

faci

12. Dave left...

faci

Evict you inner wussy ways. Hold your head up high, smile a lot treat yourself as a high status person.
Think the very best of other people and you'll be on your way to recovery.

13. a reader left...

Some of that applies to women as well... I guess I've always been the "nice girl" and that's why I'm 21 and still have never went out on a date! haha. I'm making some changes now (after being rejected by a nice guy who led me on but just wanted me as a friend) and I feel that life is much better this way.

Katie

14. Dave left...

Hi Katie

What did you mean by "I feel that life is much better this way"? And what changes are you making? Sorry. I didn't get what you meant. Duh!

15. Dave left...

The only sexy people left seem to be jerks and bitches. But wait, I'm wrong, it's always been that way!

16. a reader left...

Heya, I fall into this category as well, however I am glad to say that the facts have been exaggerated. Not every 'nice' guy has insecurities or is a momma's boy. The fact of the matter is, is that they have probably been rejected far too often earlier in their lives so that they just don't have the confidence anymore. I have been rejected plenty of times in my life, and after a certain number of times it completely destroys your self esteem. Saying that, I have been able to build up the dregs of my confidence and have been able to ask girls out with success. I do admit though that this is not the case for every 'nice' guy in the world today. Some definitely are 'wimps' but that does not classify every nice guy as a wimp. Personally, I say don't judge a book by its cover and instead look at the individual merits of each person. You may be surprised at what that 'nice' guy is capable of in a relationship.

Mark

17. Erik left...

Back when I was a "nice guy", I still had an attractive personality. But once a relationship started, I would come off as clingy or needy because of the fact that I loved spending lots of time with my girlfriend and I loved giving and receiving affection (anywhere and anytime). The problem, as I finally realized, was that I WAS needy. I needed a relationship to make me happy because I hated myself. It wasn't until I had an emotional breakdown that I finally realized the mistakes I had made and learned to give a damn about myself. I'm just saying that there is hope for "nice guys" and it doesn't mean becoming a jerk. You can still be a kind and considerate person and give love to someone, but you have to love yourself first. If you don't love or respect yourself, why should anyone else?

18. a reader left...

Erik - that's it. Your lover never should be your life. They should add to it. You should love yourself - do things for yourself, and not because it's selfish. Friends, your job, physical fitness, family, hobbies should all be equally important.

I've found by once realizing the things necessary to have a great relationship - there is no longer neediness/clingy. Guys just don't know this. I always thought that's what woman want. Learn to say NO. Stand your ground.

Bob [wwlidman@att.net]

19. a reader left...

Even if a nice guy lived in a land of pink tofu and received nothing but approval from others, it would never be enough. If self-acceptance isn't present, no amount of love from others will fill that void. They will continue to convince others of their perceived worthlessness.
Nobody has time or inclination for that in this reality. Nice Guys need to realize THEY are responsible for generating their own happiness. As a recovering AFC, the rewards DO come once you jump on the right track and build your life from the inside out.

chris [zbar2005@yahoo.com]

20. Dave left...

Thanks chris - as we suspect women are attracted mostly to emotionally unavailable rebellious men. If only ordinary guys could be more like them I think they could have a girlfriend too. :) But still, you made a good point.

21. a reader left...

I do agree that when it comes to the good boy bad boy scenario the bad boy usually wins. However I learned an incredible put extremely painful lesson a few years back when a girl that I loved died from cancer. When she was first diagnosed with cancer she was married to a jobless uncaring bad boy jerk. Two years later she divorced him and I started to date her. Because of her terminal illness she began to look at life and love a bit differently placing more value on what the good guy (me) was inside. After a short remission her cancer had moved to her liver and that was the beginning of the end. Six months later she died. Because she didn’t have any insurance the State was going to bury her. Her family didn’t have much money some of her good friends and I got together and paid for the funeral, however guess who didn’t contribute a dime, you guessed it THE BAD BOY JERK! So ladies I hope and pray that this never happens to you but it might be a good way of looking deeper into you hearts if you imagined what if this did happen to me. What would my jerk bad boy do?

Rocky [adn1956@msn.com]

22. a reader left...

Thanks Rocky. You are a cool good guy! Not a nice guy. Big difference. You are a true man.

Bob [wwlidman@juno.com]

23. Mamasan left...

Dave said, "as we suspect women are attracted mostly to emotionally unavailable rebellious men."

Suspect and speculate all you like. Meanwhile, the true Alpha Males who are the good guys who aren't wallowing in self pity and either being doormats for or abusing women, are still the world's top breeders.

Go figure.

24. a reader left...

Mark no woman will ever do that. No woman has to ability to do that, they can't./

James [jamesdh76@yahoo.com]

25. Ç£L£$tÏå-ÎñçøgÑîTø left...

Dave you already must know by now my take on this one.

26. Mamasan left...

James, why do you need to believe that?

I mean really...why do the "nice guys" here need to believe that women are simple minded idiots by virtue of having a vagina?

Why not accept the truth that most *people* are simple minded idiots?

If you happen to be in that category, I don't judge you as a bad person, but I just don't want you in my bed. Nor would any person who has a clue want a partner who was dumb enough to take on a self debasing mentality, or who gets off on hurting their partner.

If the women who prefer jerks are so appealing that you're willing to sell out your integrity to get them then fine. I won't tell you that it's the wrong thing to do.

I'm just here to tell those capable of understanding, that there is a better way *for them*. The rest deserve their misery, in my opinion.

27. Dave left...

Celestia - I'd like to hear what you have to say.

28. Dave left...

I’ve read the book “Coercion” that describes the manipulative methods of government, media and advertising you referred to. Everyone would be stunned if they read that book. I never believed much in the way of conspiracy theories until I read that book.

29. Dave left...

"..why do the "nice guys" here need to believe that women are simple minded idiots by virtue of having a vagina?" - I actually don't think that. I have read that evolutionary psychologists say women are hard wired by nature to fall for the bad boy. Also I've seen so many good ladies being abused by the jerks they are clinging to. Nature has been cruel to women in this respect. Some women do break out of this bad cycle of attraction but too many don't. I spoke to a young lady at lunch the other day. She’s studying to be an RN. We started to talk about attraction. She told me that she’s with I jerk right now. I ask her why. She couldn’t say.

30. Mamasan left...

Dave, the question is whether or not this woman preferring jerks should matter to you...and if so, how much?

If your interest in this is intellectual, then you are saying the same thing that I am: People are often very dumb.

The jerk is dumb because he's getting involved with the classic mother superior type who is going to punish him one way or another and/or prevent him from developing in the natural way that being rejected for weakness should encourage someone to butch up.

She's being dumb by seeking out a post pubescent child instead of a man, and then having the gaul to complain about her own stupid choice, and not correct it. She sucked pity from you, and will from whoever is willing to give it, but will likely do nothing to better her situation, because she doesn't want to do better.

She wants him to hurt her, and to forgive him, and wants those around her to perceive her as a brave victim.

Women in western countries have been studied, but few women outside them have been studied. Maybe the problem is that western women appear to be hard wired to prefer jerks because thousands of years of currency dependence, and a few generations of mind numbing media programming has created a sort of a "race" of sheeple who are more tolerant of destructive leadership.

I urge you while you're looking into romantic relationships, to consider that they are often reflective of the society around them. Read some about group dynamics, advertising, and manipulation, and then you'll understand why it's happenning.

If your interest in it is personal, then my suggestion is the same. You have to stop taking the preferences of people you wouldn't even want a relationship with, so personally.

The ones you should be worrying about are the strong women who can think for themselves and yet aren't anti-social...balanced ones who are in society but not solely products of it. What do they think of all this?

...and what do they think when a grown man hasn't gotten past a phase they passed through successfully in junior high?

"Should I change my appearance/behavior in ways that will cost me my looks long term and my integrity, in order to be more 'popular' right now?"

I have old photos to show what my answer was.

31. Ç£L£$tÏå-ÎñçøgÑîTø left...

Nice guy are less of a headache.No Advil required

Nice guys do not need to be players to make up for thier less than steller personality.

Nice guys are very attractive,their genuine nature turns me on.

Nice guys are real

Nice guys do not need a validation by boinking all the women in thier hometown

Nice guys are confident not conceited

Nice guys are interesting because they talk about things other than thier car/bank account/house/ect...Yawn...as though it is going to make wet

Nice guys make for great lovemaking(being treared like $hit does not turn me on)

Nice guys get my respect/hot sex,unlike the bad boy who gets to have me turn him down and see me smile with glee as I do so

*Before I got together with my bf(a nice guy)I used to play a game with the bad boy flirt with him a little than when he asked me to go home with him I would say"no".Yes this have may have made me a tease but hey he is an A$$hole and needed ot be taught you do not always get what you want!When He said"but I want you",I would reply"It is good to want".Then I would walk away.

*I have this attitude towards the bad by because I have always felt they thought they were better than me all through highschool.They called me fat and ugly on a daily basis.I have lost 20lbs in the last 10 yrs since high scool and it is so nice to turn the same bad boy down who called me fat and ugly.I am greatful now that they did this because I am intensely attracted to the nice guy for the simple fact that they are not the bad boy(the enemy).

*Can I say the writter of this post need serious Dr.Phil type therapy.She has some major issues and seems heavily unbalanced.I know you are going to repeat your usual intinct and evolution theories to excuse her obvious irrational rants.

Visit me @ http://celestia-incognito.blog-city.com

32. Dave left...

"I know you are going to repeat your usual instinct and evolution theories to excuse her obvious irrational rants." - actually they are not my theories Celestia. They're the theories of evolutionary psychologists.

33. Dave left...

I think another issue a nice guy has is that he can't entertain and amuse a woman the way an exciting sexy jerk can? Women want to be entertained more than the nice guy is capable of giving.
And it's women who say, "he provides sexual excitement and we crave his badness". Not me.
I'm glad there are a few ladies like you out there Celestia. :)

34. Ç£L£$tÏå-ÎñçøgÑîTø left...

*I personally think these evolutionary psyclogists have way too much time on thier hands.

*I have been rather sufficiently satisfied in bed by the nice guys in the multiple orgasm type of way.Any bad boys that I have slept with out of boredom have been disappointments in bed and hardly worth my time.I have usually faked it so I could go home.

35. Ç£L£$tÏå-ÎñçøgÑîTø left...

God are my sisters of the universe really that massively misguilded.I am almost ashamed to call myself a woman if it means equating myself with these dick whipped labotimized bitches.

36. Dave left...

Evolutionary psychologist report.

1. Women want powerful men with status. No matter how he gained his status.
2. Women crave dominant men like the bad boy/jerk player appears to be. Women want to submit to him.
3. Women want men with symmetrical faces especially during ovulation and this is when women cheat most often. This is so they can obtain the best genes for their offspring. Thirty percent of husbands tested for paternity are not the biological fathers.
4. Women are attracted to a man’s odor. Good odor = Good immune system
5. Men must be at least 5-9 to attract a woman.
And the list goes on….
6. Women are guided by their feelings and not rational thought.

37. Dave left...

Unfortunately, too many women are proving the evolutionary psychologists right.

38. Ç£L£$tÏå-ÎñçøgÑîTø left...

I guess I am not most women by the standards of evolutionary psychologist!!!

39. Mamasan left...

Celestia said, "[with bad boys] I have usually faked it so I could go home."

You are a much nicer person than me. I don't fake it ever.

When my two jerks each got pissed off in their due time, because I didn't want to see them anymore, I also made sure to bring up the fact that they sucked in bed.

I don't think a jerk's situation is improved by any kind of coddling, and I refuse to bear any burdens for them. Once someone tries to harm me, all my motivation for being kind to them aside of possible legal consequences, is lost. They become the dirt under my heel, and whatever I can do to hurt them, I will, as long as doing so won't hurt me more. Sometimes it's just not worth the effort, but some opportunities are too good to pass up...like flirting with his dad.

"Better an honest revenge than a deceptive peace." --- Nietzsche

This is one reason that I don't encourage a nice guy who notices that there's a problem, to resort to becoming a jerk.

I am not a woman whose bad side any man wants to be on...and I am not alone.

Some women don't only prefer nice guys, but we praise them, and punish jerks with relish.

40. a reader left...

I don't hate nice guys like other people I know. I have some friends who happen to be nice guys and I too was once a nice guy. I feel sorry for the crap they put up with when it comes to females wanting bad boys. I give them advice but they feel that they can't use or treat females badly (not to say I tell them to mistreat them). They insist on being nice and finding the one. I respect them for this and hope they find a good female. As for girls who prefer bad boys, I know a girl who preferred bad boys. I tried to hook her up with one of my nice guy friends and she walked over him and cheated on him with a bad boy. I warned her about the bad boy but she didn't listen. Now she's pregnant with twins, the guy (who was infact married) left her high and dry, and her family wants her out the house. She called me crying about the bad boy she fell for and asked for my friend's number. I hung up on her. She was just going to use him again like the last time. My point, if girls want a bad boy so bad, prepare for what ever consequences come from it. She wanted one, now look at her.

will

41. Ç£L£$tÏå-ÎñçøgÑîTø left...

"She was just going to use him again like the last time. My point, if girls want a bad boy so bad, prepare for what ever consequences come from it. She wanted one, now look at her."

will

*My seniments exactly.If you play with fire do not be suprised if you get burned!I have no patience for women who cry "poor me" if when the bad boys they go for hurt them.They knew they were bad boys,what did they expect!

42. Mamasan left...

Will, you did the right thing by hanging up on her. When or if she becomes the kind of woman a nice guy would want, she'll attract them on her own. If not, then you don't want to present her with a convenient victim to use.

Your friend deserves someone who will recognize his value without having to get hurt by someone else first.

43. James left...

Now look at me, I feel sorry for her, the girl on the phone, I wish I had a friend likeyou to keep that girl away from me, because I would fall into her trap, that's the guy I am hoping to destroy. But she must have learned her lesson by now right.

44. Michelle left...

So nice guy automatically equals boring and bad boy automatically equals exciting? There are no nice guys who ride motorcycles or play in rock bands or go sky-diving? There are no nice guys who are good looking or have muscles? My friend's husband is a nice guy (not a self proclaimed nice guy though) and also a biker (some of the nicest people you'll meet). Not sure why nice is automatically linked to being boring. I guess being nice in an insecure, looking for affirmation from someone else kind of way can be boring.

45. left...

Michelle said, "So nice guy automatically equals boring and bad boy automatically equals exciting?" - anyway that's what most HOT women tell us. Remember there's a distinction between nice syndrome and a truly nice guy. But HOT women reject them both. Cute women don't. I like cute women.

46. left...

Well as soon as we smile, and tell thier pretty, or just plane be nice to em, they start thinking we our all that bull shit, boring bad in bed and so on. They get upset when we don't give em crap, they want us to argue with em, push em around rag on em, force them to do things, keep them from doing things, and ofcors be real good in bed.

• A nice guy can do all that and more, we can give you the things you want, and love you at the same time, woman don't get this, they our unable to figure out this simple coceprt of bad boy equals bad relationship, or very bad things like STDs. Nice guys are clean and relaxed, sure we get excited when you pretty woman give us attention, but we get over it, just don't go testing us, we our already flawless, and good sex is learned, guys who our good in bed already have had sex with so many woman it should be a law against it.

47. Dave left...

I don't think women can help the fact that the worst kind of man turns them on. They just can't help it. So maybe we guys should seek out only sluts to create a balance. What do you think? We can't help it we're attracted only to sluts!

48. James left...

Like hell we are, woman think that since so many men are going to strip bars, and humping call girls, that i'ts what we want, no ladies it's because are hormones are racing and we just give up, and end up with a 300 dollar gogo dancer at the end of the day, Most men who do it, go home feeling like shit, some puke, some even think of suicide, we in no way want this. We know what a good woman is, and we all go for it, if you wonder why we our allways chasing bad girls it's because those are the only woman that get out the house and show up in night clubs bars, markets Malls, and all the other places Guys would be. Nice girls dont' get out, they don't hit bars malls or anything esle, and when we do see you, you make us feel like a rapiest when we look at you.

And for those woman allways complaining about nice guys not making the first move, it's respect, and we tend to stay that way, most of those bad boys are quick to jump you, and if you say no ............GUESS WHAT LADY, YEAH YOU GUESSED IT, RAPE, RAPE, RAPE, RAPEBad boys rape, and in most cases they may have STDs so now you double fucked. Nice guys get tested and respect a woman, all you have to do is get close touch us, and it's on.

Woman often get freaked out when men are in thier present, so we try to relax and not jump you ladies so that you feel safe. YOu think we don't want sex.........YOu kidding, you know we don't get it much (nice guy hello) We will lick, band slide, rub, grab you in any way you like all night long just like your so called bad boy. OH and nice guys are willing to do it your way and our way, bad boys buss nuts and leave you still wanting.

In his mind (Fuck you bitch I got other woman waiting relax.) think a nice guy will do that, you stupid, but not foolish, it's not your fault, just think about it before you you act, you say men think with their Dicks........your talking about the guys you date, not us Lady, nice guys think logicaly that is why we don't get you.

49. Dave left...

Wow James, I just think it's because bad boys turn them on and we nice guys don't. It's that simple. Bad boys are hot and we're not. That's all. Right girls?

Bad boys fire up a woman's sexual fantasies and we don't. Bad boy make them feel sexy and we don't. It's that simplle. But ladies don't expect anything from us once you grow tired of the bad boys and want to start a family. We refuse sloppy seconds and we don't need damaged goods.

50. James left...

LoL, they don't knwo what's going to happen 5 ten years from now. OH and how about the ones getting knoked up by the bad boys...LoL we find em in the club all pissed off, or when they get thier looks back, and now they hate men, getting into arguments with every nice guy who appraoches them, and then end up with the same jack ass they just got drugg through the dirt with, now it's completely to late, now she is old wrinkled and still blaming men for her fuck ups. I met some of these woman. Now I laugh, because I know what happend, I am not your night in shining armor lady, suck it up or shut up.

51. James left...

So in reality, most woman think with thier chocha's and not with thier heads.............AT ALL, I WOULD LOVE FOR ANYONE TO PROVE ME WRONG.

52. Dave left...

They only go by their FEELINGS and not rational thought.

53. Michelle left...

>>We refuse sloppy seconds and we don't need damaged goods.<<

Well good thing, cause women will be out finding the true nice guys, not the guys who are nice until they can't get their way. Seriously, does your niceness revolve around being able to get a woman? You lot are as phony as the "hot" women you chase after.

54. Mamasan left...

I don't think you're all phoney...just giving too much time to your anger, and too much credit to people who are just, well, people.

James, you've been proven wrong. You just don't like women who prove you wrong. Your ego's too fragile to allow yourself to think you could be wrong about women being at fault for your ineptitude with them.

I mean, James...most of these stupid hoes you chase after are not so hard to get. Flash a little cash, and just make it clear that they're not going to get anything out of you unless they're giving a little something too.

Someone being a stupid hoe doesn't make them a bad person. You wouldn't be a bad person for dating them. Just don't try to con people into believing that you are really a nice guy.

Nice guys don't usually care much about looks aside of grooming and self care...and of course porn, but most are still aware that the screen or zine is different from real life.

I'm sure you're smart enough to know how most media cute, unchallenging women are gotten. Do what you have to do to get what you want, and don't complain about the price. That would be like arguing against the existence of Tuesday.

As for me, I just had a great party with a few friends including but not limited to the recovering jerk and mother superior couple and the 20 year old musician who is about to fade into professional life.

I have good, interesting, nice friends, and so I know I'm attracting the right people. For me, it's only a matter of time before the next candidate. I don't need to hate on men in the meantime.

Learn patience and real forgiveness...not the fake kind that just covers up for being hurt, but the real kind that involves addressing the problems, including your own, and facing the world bravely with a new albeit painful lesson under your belt.

Be okay with nature, and nature will be okay with you.

55. Dave left...

Michelle Said: "Well good thing, cause women will be out finding the true nice guys, not the guys who are nice until they can't get their way. Seriously, does your niceness revolve around being able to get a woman? You lot are as phony as the "hot" women you chase after." - Great reply, thanks.

56. will left...

I was a jerk back then. Now I'm just a nice guy with jerk like tendencies. Ever since I changed (or matured) I noticed a decline in females I once had. One of my ex-girlfriends said that she loved me when I was bad cause I was exciting. She said the she fell out of love cause I was becoming too nice. I notice alot of femaless I knew stopped calling also. This is slowly making me frustrated with most females. I say if females are really attracted to a cheating maliputive man the hey give them one. I feel as thou I can't change into something I hate. I wonder when and why females look on nice guys got so bad.

57. Mamasan left...

Will, the numbers are always against the strong.

When you fit into any kind of social "box", you are easier to comprehend. You simply play the part, and people treat you according to your type, or rather stereotype. Westerners are infamous for this because they watch way too much television.

You may be dealing with an issue that most people who haven't studied influence, the media, or fashion, have trouble articulating. You could be going too far into the nice guy image and casting yourself into too rigid a role, OR you could be in that sort of grey area that they can't comprehend.

You may want to do more to tailor your presentation and costume to allow for better understanding of your position.

Another problem many recovering jerks have is in their perceived karma. They're often trying to make up for bad things they feel they've done in the past, by lavishing undue attention or affection on women who wouldn't know how to appreciate it.

You don't owe anyone for who you were. The best thing you can do about your past is to make restitution for any actual wrongs you did to specific people, and leave the rest where it belongs...in the past. Just bear in mind that it was never wrong for you to reject someone you didn't really like. The rejection wasn't what you were doing wrong. It was whatever lying or manipulating you might have done on the way.

The women who liked you when you were a jerk are better left in your past. If one of them really did wish better for you, she will volunteer to be part of your present, and her expectations of you will be based on how you are, not how you were.

The rest however, needed a jerk, and if you did get back with them, ultimately they would begin to pressure you in some way to return to your old behaviors...just like the recovering jerk/mother superior couple I was talking about.

They were lucky in that it didn't take them long to recognize what was going on between them (partly with my and another spiritual counselor friend's help, but mostly because of the recovering jerk's determination to mature) and stop the decline. Many are not so fortunate, and the guy ends up eventually becoming a dickhead putting the girlfriend through hell just because he can.

So fewer women is not something to worry too much about. The issue for concern is whether or not you're presenting an accurate and understandable image of yourself and your capabilities, and not selling yourself short.

58. Michelle left...

It seems certain "nice guys" have some sense of entitlement. Like being nice should be enough to deliver you from the heartache that everyone goes through. True nice guys don't let things like that change who they are, and they don't sit and dwell on it as though it should happen to everyone else, but not them.

59. James left...

No, No, no, first MaMasan, I don't chase after hoes, and looks matter allot to any man, and it isn't a choice that I make, I told you this a million times. YOu are mad at the fact that I don't like Fat woman. JENNY CRAIG IS ALL YOU NEED. NICE GUYS NEED JESUS....LOL.......Now nice guys are not being nice so they get woman, jerks are being jerks to get woman. Nice guys are being nice because they can't help it, it is part of thier life style. We hate jerks and hated they way they treated woman.....KEY WORD HERE IS HATED, WE NOW KNOW YOU LIKE THAT, AND CRAVE FOR IT, THE NEXT FEMALE I SEE BEET UP BY HER BOYFRIEND I'LL FIND IN FUNNY AND MOVE ON. Yeah as you can see I am not so nice anymore, I was, I was so nice i even drove this girl 6oo miles just so she can talk with her ex boyfriend and see if she still had feelings...........They had sex while I was waiting for her out side and never knew, she never called again after we got back.............THAT GUY GAVE HER AIDS, AND i DON'T KNOW WHAT IS OF HER NOW.

60. Mamasan left...

James, I'm not mad because you don't like fat women. I just have a severe aversion to male pussy is all. Don't take it personally. Any person who decides to spew their weakness in my direction gets the same treatment.

However, the point here is not that my size and decisiveness intimidate you. My point is that you are self cancelling.

You're making bad partner choices, and then blaming women for your bad choices. You say the same kinds of things that bitter women do. To me, it's kind of funny to see it from the other side.

Women are probably reacting to you the same way guys react to bitter women. They always treat the wrong guys too well, and then when they do them wrong, they act like it's all men's fault.

The reason you feel your attraction to certain kinds of women is out of your control is because for all intents and purposes, it is. You're operating on some kind of dysfunctional autopilot, and it's flying you right into a mountain.

You always have an excuse. Well, I hope your excuses are keeping you warmer at night than they kept me for the brief phase of my teens that I used to make them. Cold comfort...

Heh.

61. James left...

Your a jack ass, I am 30 And I have no issues with woman only the Crazy logic, and you are on a whole different Level as to what I talk about in this forum. I comment about why woman hate roses on a first date and you bring up fat woamn. Give up on it, I am not going to get affended by you PLease, give up.

62. Mamasan left...

James, you're the one who keeps bringing my fatness into every conversation. I say something about relationships, and you start talking about Jenny Craig.

Then you say that you're a nice guy who's being treated unfairly. From my view, you are getting exactly the treatment you deserve.

If you want to be respected, you must become respectable. Some people still won't respect you then, but you'd have a better chance of it. You teach people how to treat you.

I want you to consider what you've taught me about yourself.

You might be a tough guy with men, but with women, you fight like a girl. You're petty and catty. Butch up.

63. James left...

I see you like to argue, knowing full well it was you who keeps bringing it up, I wasn't even addressing you, and you started to comment in many forums that I posted. I don't know what you attempting with all this by it only shows how foolish you are, I now realize why you are having so much trouble with men. YOu hate the fact that you have to stay looking good all your life to keep a man because you know, that the real you is far to ugly inside to overcome the outside. I can't help you, and my success with woman, is getting better and better every day. I cannot count the numbers on my finger, I am very happy now, and would help you if you would let up.

64. Tommy left...

James and Mamasan - Okay, round one is over. Go back to your corners and come out swinging for round two. (Just kidding). :-)

65. Mamasan left...

Tommy, there will be no round two. He made my point for me.

I can now just sit back and laugh at his foolishness.

You'd think if he was going to talk such trash, he'd do some research first. LOL!

66. James left...

Popular vote explains, that FAt woman always attack those who are skinny, and the men who love the skinny woman, mad that they cannot just up and get skinny with out giving up eating cupcakes. They ignore the reality that Woman don't go for looks as much as men do, they go on feelings, so they get upset at the fact that no matter what they do or how well they do it. The fact that they are fat will always play the bigger role. Woman thank god, will look past the fact that one maybe fat, old, ugly etc, as I said no woman could ever be Hue Heffner. This reality plays both into the hands of men, and out of the hands of men.

This reason why it would is because most men are not born with the sex appeal that most women have on men. It is rare that you see a man that has that look. So if we can act the part or be the part, and still get the amazing girls, it plays into the hands for us.

The reason why it doesn't is because this part that we can act isn't easy at all, because it goes against all the things we have learned. All the ideas we thought of to be as unlike the jack assess that hurt are sisters and mothers when we were small. We couldn't see what was really going on, there was no way. How could we? We now have to reinvent out selves to over come this blindfold that mothers and lying woman have placed over our eyes. Woman complained about the choices they made, and made it seem like they didn't want that. Now we have a nations of woos bags.

But ON the men’s side, woman have challenged this so much, that they actually think it's bad that we men don't see it their way, when it's just the way were built. Men don't look at the inside nearly as much as woman. We don't sit there and test beautiful woman, we could care less at first, and for the most part, woman are at ease and almost never say anything silly.

So we just fall at their feet in awe, (jack ass). But if they are Fat, or unattractive, we still act out the same ideas. Looks, and we will still go on the same basic concept and ignore her intellect in every way. Woman don't get this, just as men don't get the logic behind being nice doesn't get you the girl, but it should.

• Being nice can get you the man, but you have to look the part, for the most part. It is just the way men our built. We love to look, not to say that all men like what I like, skinny woman. I know lots of men who love big woman, and these women love them. The problem woman still go for what they cannot have, and this encounters them to go after the men who don't want them, instead of the men who do. Then they get upset at the fact that them being fat and nothing more prevents them from getting the man that they THINK they want.

• This cause an argument, hate, and an uproar of men hating woman who are found leading a group of attractive woman in an all out man hating campaign. The attractive woman are those who date lost of bad boys who then dogs em out, and the all fall back to the queen bitch, who makes it seem like all men are this way.

• The problem with mamasan is that she wants to live life with out all the hard work of keeping in shape, and is pissed at the lack of men who go for her, and play the bad boy role at the same time. It is not the choice of one to decide what they go for physically, it's just the nature of that person.

• I go for lots of types, and for the most part, a fat stomach, bad teeth, and bad hygiene are among the things that will always turn me off. I am not choosing to dislike these things it's my bio make up, nothing more.

67. Bob left...

James - I think Mamasan does quite well for herself - she knows what she is doing. You could lear a lot from her - I do.

You on the other hand have a TON to learn about woman and relationships.

68. Mamasan left...

Bob, thank you...and I'm glad I could be of service. :-)

69. James left...

And how is it that you have come to such a foolish conclusion after shutting everything the woman has said down. YOu and her say the exact opposite every time. I don't get you BoB. Not to mention that I complimented her twice but, the lady continues to try to insult me. Why well I just told you. It has come to my understanding that my way of communication is above you both, and with that said. I can only ask that you just respond to what is being asked and not discussed on my part. Unless I am addressing you.

If you think it’s ok for a woman to be fat then that’s you. If you think I have allot to learn about woman, I would say you have a good memory because I already told you I did. And if you read what yo wrote, and what she wrote and actually read what I wrote, and I know you didn’t. You would see that you talking out of you ass, with that comment you maid.

70. Tommy left...

Call me crazy but I don't think that Bob and Mamasan always disagree. There are times where they will agree, but for different reasons.

I will also say that I saw a picture of Mamasan on her profile and I liked what I saw.

71. Tommy left...

Mamasan - I want to apologize if I made you feel uncomfortable or offended you. While I'm at it, I want to apologize to Celestia for the same thing. No wonder we haven't heard from her since then.

Dave - I want to apologize to you because you welcome me on this site and I still creep people out and scare them away. I'm sorry. :-(

72. James left...

Well it has nothing to do with me not finding her attractive at all. She is attempting to make me out to be some kind off, Woman hatter for not liking fat woman. she says that I am shallow for not being interested in woman being FAt. She says that I will leave my wife for gaining any weight after she has my child. All of this is bull shit, and the lady won't leave it alone.

73. Bob left...

Too bad James - I've had fun and dated some very attractive woman who were a little over weight - these woman were extremely comfortable with themselves. Great Lovers. FUN! Low maitance (one thing you need to find out about), Blonde, sexy, took no shit from anyone...

74. James left...

Bob you are being a jack ass now. As a man you should know that, as DD as quoted. What ai am attracted to isn't a choice.. There is nothing I can do about not wanting to be with a woman who can't step away from the fucking table. I do not want to smaller then my female partner at the belly. I don't want to wake up to blobs of fat sloping all over me. I like fit. NOt really small even thoe I love them two. But when I say fat, I mean The Parkers fat. That is nasty, it has nothing to do with I don't like them. I am sure she is happy with life, I am saying I am not and will never be attracted to a woman over weight, and no I am not looking for models at all. I think Trina, jlo. And other big woman like that are very sexy. AND IT ISN'T HARD TO LOOS WEIGHT, IF YOU ARE MAD AT WHAT YOU SEE THEN GET THE FUCK TO THE GYM.

75. Mamasan left...

Tommy, you're not offending me or creeping me out. I was much worse during my mad at the world phase.

...and thank you for the compliment. :-)

76. will left...

We are all attracted to different things in this world. Where some may not be attracted to big women, some might find them the most attractive thing on earth. Some might like skinny, some might not. My point is we like different things and no two people are going to have the same taste. I won't knock James for not liking big women. I respect his opinion. That's him and I don't have any say in what he or anyone else should like or not like. I personally don't have a problem with big women. I had a girlfriend who was a little over weight and she was the best thing that happened to me. I still wish we hadn't broken up. It's always good to remember, nothing in the world is ugly. We're just not attracted to it.

77. Tommy left...

Mamasan - Anytime.

78. James left...

Well Will, if you like fat woman then you shouldn't have any problem getting a date. And none of the things said in this blog should apply to you or the woman you date.

79. Mamasan left...

James, nobody cares about this as much as you do. Give it a rest.

80. Dodger left...

Nothing James has said should be shocking in any matter whatsoever. Just because exceptions can be found for any kind of general statement does not invalidate the statement made and it does not mean the statement is ignorant or false.

Here, I'll make a statement:

Teenagers are idiot drivers once they get their license and are driving on their own.

Now, some folks will be able to spell out wonderful teenage drivers and just how perfect they are. But that does not invalidate my statement.

Some folks will be able to point out that there are idiot drivers who are not teenagers. But that, also, does not invalidate the statement.

The statement is valid because generally speaking, coming from an adult, it is true. Otherwise statements will need to be backed up with reams and reams of caveats and clauses and exceptions. Has anyone ever had to peruse through a contract of legalese to get my point?

How difficult is it to hire someone to clean the outside of plate glass windows at ground floor? It seems like a simple request. But to have nine-pages of accompanying legalese just goes to show exactly how assinine the situation is becoming in the world. It has nothing to do with actual legalese, it all has to do with people feeling they are above reproach.

It is best to look at it from the perspective of the person who is making the statement as well as from the person affected by the statement.

When I read James general statements about fat women, I get the feeling he isn't talking about women in the Drew Barrymore type of vein. I get the feeling he is talking about women in the Rosanne Barr type of vein. And until a guy is actually in that position and knows exactly how he will react, pretty much anything that is said is purely conjecture.

James has chosen to not allow himself to get into those situations. As have I. This has nothing to do with how the body changes as we grow older or as how hormones change once women start having children. It is assinine to assume that is what James is referring. Heck, James has as much admitted that he knows most people gain weight as we age and as hormones change and has accepted that fact. But it is true, in many cases for young people without hormonal changes brought on by childbirth, the weight issue is very much a controllable issue for the majority of the population should they choose to make that choice. To be fair, some people are perfectly comfortable in choosing to allow themselves to pack on the pounds at a young age.

James is very clearly talking about vices. Some vices can be forgiven and some can't. It is different for everyone. One particular vice I can't stand is smoking. She may be the sweetest, prettiest, leggiest statuesque model that has ever made her presence to me, but if she smokes, that one particular vice is such a weakness that I tune out. It can't be overcome.

I know full well the huge explosion of type II diabetes affecting the West. Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are not debilitating diseases. People affected by diabetes require more discipline to live their lives than do others not so afflicted. The thing is Type 1 diabetics have grown up with this and are in complete control and really are stable and strong. If a diabetic is going to be difficult it will be the Type 2 diabetic. Some folks accept it and begin a disciplined regime. Some folks could care less. Their lives become sedentary and they take poor stock of their situation. It's a significant display of weakness. Those that don't believe the rampant explotion of diabetes in the west leading to obesity at a young age isn't a major health problem really doesn't understand the severity of the situation. People are losing control of their lives. They certainly aren't going to profit from their disease. But, I digress, this issue isn't about diabetes. I was only illustrating that diabetes is no excuse for obesity.

There is nothing wrong in just becoming friends. Women like to just be friends with nice guys. Why is that so different than nice guys just wanting to be friends, nothing more, with fat women (to each their own for the definition of fat)?

Because nice guys aren't taking stock of the real person within? Because we're deemd hypocrites for just such a stance?

Hold on!

We're talking attraction here. Same as women with men. Men with women. Attraction.

Pretty much nice guys have to change to improve their attraction quotient with the women they are attracted to.

Is it now being said that nice guys must also change so they can be attracted to women they aren't attracted to? Seems to be an assinine conjecture.

The issue is not that some men don't like fat women. The issue is that if fat women want to improve their attraction quotient with the men they are attracted to, then they should be changing to fit that bill, same as nice guys are doing, because the other person probably will not change.

Basically, what does it matter? And for that matter - why does it matter?

A nice guy does not automatically have to be attracted to every single woman on the planet because he is a nice guy. So we become friends rather than lovers. Something wrong with that?

As far as duality goes, once one can see this duality then one is entirely comfortable in the friends realm and the friends category. If someone I'm attracted to has dumped me in the friends category, then so be it. I'd take a friend any day over not having a friend. Because I know full well, in me, that situations have been on the other foot where the attraction she feels for me cannot be reciprocated and we just become friends.

This particular topic doesn't need to be tainted by petty rebukes or inappropriate judgement calls.

Remember the original message that started this discussion.

81. Mamasan left...

Dodger, nothing James has said is in any way shocking to me either.

I just choose not to indulge his pettiness. I am above that. Once I make it clear that I'm not an easy target, my work is done with people like him. He can insult my afterburn all he likes. I have ceased to care.

You may if you choose, but it doesn't affect my life in any way.

...and I think this is the problem.

You, he, and people like you expect exceptional people to give a crap and fall in line on your and society's say so. You think that after all we've been through by the time we reach adulthood, and all the proof we've had in our own lives that you're driving us to nowhere but a life of pain or suicide, that we should still say, "Yes you're right. What was I thinking trying to be a *gasp* individual???"

I'll tell the both of you right now that it's not going to happen.

So you're barking up the wrong tree.

Been there, done that, bought the choli and matching sarong.

Find another target. You will not find me receptive often, and when you do, you will not find me pleasant.

82. James left...

Thanks dodge, and mamasss i'll give it a rest when you back off, and stop whinning about my not liking you Lipids.

83. Tommy left...

I thought I had the biggest chip on my shoulder of everybody here... until James came along.

84. Mamasan left...

James, you are so right. I am a big fat slob who never does anything more rigorous than lifting a fork. Tell me, what must I do to please you? You are just such a great catch...So very intelligent, and oh so nice.

I am so sorry for arguing with you. I should know my place as a lowly woman and just agree with everything you say.

85. James left...

LEAVE ....................... IT ................... ALONE~~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lady.

86. Mamasan left...

I did that days ago, James, but you kept running on that same hammy wheel after I'd dropped it already.

James, I'll tell you straight. The fact that you don't like fat women bothers me none. What causes me to treat you with contempt is that you insulted me repeatedly.

You could have said that you don't prefer fat women without bringing all that other crap into it. We could have discussed it, and even debated it with no hard feelings.

I said I have a theory about men who need a woman to be small and fragile, and explained my theory only because you asked me to...and you could have proven me wrong by showing some self discipline, and knowledge about fitness and evolutionary biology that didn't sound like it was read from the back of a 20 year old can of Slimfast.

Instead, you proved that at least in your case, my theory was correct.

My being fat is less important to your outbursts of insanity than the fact that I am a woman you consider unattractive who has the gaul to disagree with you. You expressed weakness and insecurity when confronted by someone whose life defies your stereotypes.

You cling so tightly onto what little sense of superiority you think you have over someone else that is evolutionarily baseless. You need this illusion so badly that anything that belies it is responded to with a venom that would rival the most bratty 12 year old I know.

James, I'm a big woman who gets laid, and by guys cuter, smarter, and definitely much nicer than you. Both my husbands were also beautiful, wonderful men. I have a gorgeous, thick, strong, and assertive daughter who I expect to be just as successful as me, if not more.

Being a non Jew in Israel puts me at some disadvantage in the dating pool, but in the U.S. I had no problem finding dates or committed partners.

...and I can kick a good chunk of the world's population's ass in one on one combat, and alot of them two or more on one.

So I don't need your approval to live. Nature does that just fine for me.

You, James, are a jock who is finding out something that many guys who were at the top of the food chain in high school discover once adult life hits them.

Nature is not kind to the stupid.

You are not going to win a war of words with me, because I am smarter than you, and I have more self discipline. I can sit back and laugh while you make a fool of yourself, and then tear your pathetic arguments apart as easily as tissue.

This is the internet. It is the greatest minds, not the biggest fists that rule here.

You are in my yard.

87. James left...

YOu jack ass, if you has so much control then why do you keep taking my idea about fat woman personal remember I never said you. I just said fat, and got mad, and what are you tearing up like tissue, I am not making a statement I am responding to the blogs jack ass. If you would lay back and laugh you may enjoy it instead of getting upset........I think I am the one laughing, I was the one who said I could get to you easy in another blog you dont know about.................jack ass.

88. James left...

OH and how is it that you know what I look like. You painted a picture of me in you head because of the way I speak to you........See Dave BoB. That stuff really works thanks for working with em MAMASAN

89. will left...

I often wondered If Nice guys are as bad as everyone said they were. Sadly they are. Nice guys fail to realize how they treat females. They treat them like they would treat their mom. Nice guy are too passive and too needy in the eyes of females. No female likes a guy who can't stand up for himself. Nice guys are also have a tendency to be boring when it come to relationships. They seem to be the ones who miss all the open signals females give them when it comes to sex. Nice guys don't come off as daring as jerks cause they are to busy trying to please everybody but themselves. Nice guys I think are as clueless about relationships and females as Paris Hilton is as clueless about life. They just won't figure it out anytime soon.

90. Mamasan left...

James, you have crossed the line into Looneyville. Enjoy your trip. You'll be there with no more input from me.

In other words, as of this post, you have ceased to exist to me.

91. James left...

Oh MAMAASAN you know how silly you sound with that.

92. Dodger left...

Hmmm...

Was that another judgement call made about me, Mamasan?

I said nothing disparaging, belligerent or personal.

Every opportunity has been afforded to engage in intelligent and respectful discussion. And you have, again, responded with belligerent personal judgement statements.

I understand how the written word can't always convey what is meant to be said. Without being able to engage in person and know the inflection in voice and the expressions on the face and the motions with the arms and body position, it is easy to not accurately convey the correct meaning or even interpret the correct meaning.

Because the way I read your judgement calls about me and all people like me (amazing how you have been able to gleam who I am off of a handful of posts) and the very belligerent nature of your posts it certainly sounds like something being said by someone who is shallow, prejudiced, and extremely judgemental.

Yet, I have read in your own words how you are not those things. So I will continue to give you the benefit of the doubt.

But, like every other individual and free-thinking person, I do have an opinion and I do have an opinion not based in ignorance or hatefulness, or spite. I only make that clarification just to try to eliminate further misconstrued (and very inappropriate) judgement calls.

I do not kowtow to what I feel are your self affecting and very fallible statements of wisdom regarding society, the world, and all peoples, that are to be unquestioned as if being delivered by an oracle above reproach.

That is not to say that value can't be found in some of what you have to share, for it can. But just because some value can be found does not automatically indicate that all that is said is valuable and intelligent and beyond reproach.

Just relax. Don't look for a fight where there is none to be found.

Everyone has their own life to live. Everyone is different, or rather, everyone is unique. There is not just one absolute correct way to live one's life just as there is not one absolute correct philosophy about life, living, and the universe. Being able to question is just as valuable as being receptive to being questioned.

93. Dave left...

I respect all of you. I tend to like everyone. It's a weakness that has caused me many problems in the past. WE need to tone down OUR rhetoric just a little, but not totally.

94. James left...

Well Dave I tried.

95. Mamasan left...

Dodger, you are free to believe and prefer whatever you like...as am I.

I will not attempt to change your opinion. It is not worth enough to me to bother.

In other words, I'll tell you the same as I told that other person. If you can't get it up for a big woman (especially one who's healthy and wouldn't be caught dead in a mumu outside a luau) then that is something to discuss with a urologist, and not try to argue the validity of your level of impotence with me.

To me, it makes the same amount of sense as women who have something against short men. It's their preference and they're welcome to it, but it says something about their perception of themselves and gender roles.

If a woman were to post that she couldn't get excited over a short man, I'd probably ask her whether she was looking for a mate or a replacement father figure.

Truly nice guys who don't live in a bubble are looking at more important things than dress size.

96. James left...

LoL, in what world...........Dave.

97. Mamasan left...

Guys, here's a hypothetical in a frame that some may more easily understand.

Let's say it's not 2005, but rather 2500, and the U.S. government implements widespread public health profiling. When a child is born, a sample of their DNA is analyzed for health risks.

Those who are at risk for terminal diseases or somewhat predisposed to conditions that could lead to terminal illness after age 70 are given a small, round, blue tattoo at the base of their neck.

Those with serious risk factors that are likely to trigger by age 50 are given an orange tattoo.

Those with risk factors triggered by 35, a red tattoo...and by age 25, a black tattoo.

In addition, each person is given a second tattoo that tells whether they are a carrier of a "bad" genetic trait, and what level of risk their children might be.

So someone may be blue orange or blue black, or black blue.

Then let's say you have people who are rebellious or born outside the country and rebellious, who have no profile tattoos, or refuse to get their kids tattooed.

Of course, the government doesn't want to go so far as to force people no...they pressure people to get their tattoos by making it administratively difficult for the unmarked, and through celebrity campaigns.

Supposing you, Joe Public, are lucky enough to be a blue blue. Here are some questions:

Would you keep your tats or join the rebels in demarking?

If blue blues were promoted as very snobby, would you blue orange or orange blue yourself to make yourself more approachable?

Let's say you have a shot at a commitment with two women, one a black orange, and the other a blue blue...and the black orange loves you to the death and has beat the odds, guarded her health well, and managed to live to 25 and probably won't actually die anytime soon.

The blue blue is affectionate and would marry you, and live a long life without any particular effort, but she doesn't love you enough to say, not call you out of your name during an argument.

Basically, for practical purposes, let's say the black orange is a better mate behaviorally, but the blue blue is a better mate genetically.

Which do you choose?

...now let's say you meet a great woman, but when you check, you find that she doesn't have a tattoo. Would you pressure her to get one? Would you take your chances and commit to her and have some kids even though she's not "guaranteed"? Would you pressure her to get the kids marked?

Just some things to think about...

98. Bob Red left...

Being a habitual nice guy myself, i thought i would share my opinion. the point that interested me the most was

"Each gift he gives you, or loving gesture he shows you, is really a guaranteed down payment toward a future of him clinging to you like a drowning man to a life-saver"

Take this example, you go into a shop to buy something and the sales assistant runs straight up to you as soon as you get in, giving you the hard sell on this and that, making you feel obligated to buy in return for all their hard work. suddenly, you dont know wether you really want the item you went in to buy any more. In that situation, you are more likely to want to leave without buying anything (and possibly being rude to the shopekeeper in the process through resentment!) You look for a way out. If you attribute that to relationships, that seems to be your 'nice guy' model. Not really much of a nice guy after all? - possibly why there is the confusion over what is meant by the term 'nice guy'.

Im Sure people want all these loving guestures and gifts, but they dont want to be deluged with them in the beginning since it makes the one on the recieving end feel trapped into the relationship and (even if they are happy) they may start to question things. Thoughts of "I cant do anything in my life without him being there" soon follow, and eventually they convince themselves its better to end things before there is no way out. Maybe the problem is that a nice guy wants a relationship to develop too soon. I think the word here is balance. A balance between being a good partner and not being too clingy. And maybe another word too... Space.

But to be able to do these things, you have to be confident in yourself.

As i said, I am a habitual nice guy, but after reading this it highligted a few things i was doing (with good intentions) and how they could be misconstrued in the dating game.

anyway thats my two penneth worth (or my 50 cents if you are reading this in america!!)

RED

99. Bob Red left...

another thing worth noticing is how films depict the dating game. Take the chick flick "shes all that" (yes i had to endure this one!) In it the dowdy, plain girl gets the high school hunk. The moral... Girls, dont settle for less than your ideal man. then the film (sort of aimed at guys) err... well Shallow hal, where the male is told that he must look to the inner beauty.

What is the POTENTIAL impact on society? Women go around only looking for hunky blokes, whilst men go around thinking they must be greatful for what they can get.

When was the last time they made a film where the fat highschool geek managed to end up going out with the popular highschool prom queen (and where she didnt turn out to be a bi@ch making him go out with his equally geeky girl friend instead)?

that is not a slur on anyones sex or body type, but if you do believe that the media does have an effect on society, then from my two examples maybe you can see a pattern emerging.

100. Dave left...

Thanks Bob Red. There is big difference between a "Nice Guy" and "Nice Guy Syndrome". Nice Guys Syndome is just a different brand of jerk.

101. DJ left...

>>When was the last time they made a film where the fat highschool geek managed to end up going out with the popular highschool prom queen (and where she didnt turn out to be a bi@ch making him go out with his equally geeky girl friend instead)? <<

I don't know if you get to watch much American TV, but if you do, look at the husbands and wives on, King of Queens, Life according to Jim, Center of the Universe. Even on Seinfeld, George never dated a woman who was the same body type as him (As well as on his show Listen Up, Jason Alexander had a thin, beautiful wife).

BTW, the "overweight kid" got the "prom queen" in Angus. Can't think of a movie were the overweight girl gets the prom king.

102. Tommy left...

DJ - I think what Bob Red is concerned about is why do the movies and television shows often send a message saying that the man should be greatful for what he has, while the woman is told that she should strive for the best.

103. Tommy left...

DJ - I think what Bob Red is concerned about is why do the movies and television shows often send a message saying that the man should be greatful for what he has, while the woman is told that she should strive for the best. Call me crazy, but it sounds hypocritical.

104. Mamasan left...

Tommy, it is very hypocritical, but what else is new?

People who can think for themselves do, and people who can't don't. Those who think for themselves should probably be looking for partners who do, since mounting evidence points to this particular trait being largely genetic.

Do you want to have kids who listen to the television better than you? Or who even listen to you better than life?

Sometimes we seek validation in art, and it's nice when it happens, but one must consider that what makes it to the mainstream is often only what the ptb want to make it. Right now they want nice guys to believe that they too can have a thin, beautiful wife so long as they march in line and behave like emasculated idiots...and they want young hot girls to think that the man of their dreams should be a jerk and/or a musclehead...and they want "fat" girls to think they shouldn't exist, or should do whatever it takes to be thin, even if it kills them or makes them old before their time. They basically want everyone to be dissatisfied with themselves, and look for the answer in the glowing box or screen.

People who fall for that crap deserve their misery. My only problem with that is that they want everyone else to be miserable along with them.

I've noticed that a guy will catch more flack for saying that he is an intellectual who doesn't feel the need to spend more than a reasonable amount of time on fitness, than he will for being unfit. So long as he behaves as if he wants to be a musclehead, and complains about his body, he's considered okay. If he makes a choice to devote more time to his studies, and is vocal about this, he attracts negative attention and criticism.

Women are even worse. All of us are supposed to be on a diet. Women look at me like I'm crazy if I say that I choose not to weaken myself for the sake of being more trendy...and men actually get angry at me sometimes for being a big woman who doesn't apologize for it. It's as if I don't have a right to like myself.

The smart person must remember that the herd is going to promote what's best for the herd, not the individual. When you stand up as an individual, you should be ready for opposition.

Yes it is frustrating to see b.s. all around you, and it can be scary that so many people buy it...but if you think about it, it just makes it easier to see who has a clue and who doesn't.

With some of these movies of the underdog getting the girl or the guy, the media is now trying to speak to us...and they're basically telling us that if we would only try harder to assimilate, or make ourselves more useful to the herd, then we would be recognized and loved.

How...nice.

They don't show the 10 years later when the hunky guy stops having sex with the geeky girl because he realizes she's not what he really wanted...or when the shallow guy who sees the light's girlfriend actually does lose the weight, and decides to "trade up".

There are a few movies out there that do show the power of love though. I'd opt out of the "come to the dark side" propaganda for nerds, and go for the ones that say, "love is the most powerful emotion, and can raise you beyond your previously imagined potential".

105. DJ left...

>>Call me crazy, but it sounds hypocritical.<<

So does the fact that older men can date younger women, but if an older woman dates a younger man it's a big deal. Nobody gave a shit when Bruce Willis was dating Brooke Burns, but look at the uproar of Demi dating Ashton. And that's not tv or movies, that's real life.

106. DJ left...

And on the subject of Shallow Hal, Why did they need a woman in suit to play the heavier version of Gweneth Paltrow? Why couldn't they get an actress who was heavier and beared a resemblece to Gweneth? Jack Black is fat and they didn't seem to have a problem casting him (Or Jason Alexander). How many actresses do you know are heavy like John Goodman or Kevin James and have thriving careers? Just to speak of double standards.

107. James left...

I will not be taking woman in at 40, if we havn't found love by then, I'm dating your daughter not you.

108. DJ left...

Judging from some of your posts, you aren't really dating anyone, or actually, nobody is dating you.

109. James left...

Then you must not be reading my post, I get cute girls for one night, stands four week sex flings, but I don't get what I want, like a real love affair. Watch your mouth

110. Mamasan left...

DJ, I think the purpose for casting Paltrow as the fat and the thin character had to do with the fact that a real woman of her size, especially one working in the field for the Peace Corps would probably neither have "kankles" nor mobility problems...and probably wouldn't be breaking chairs. They wanted to make a point of the woman being fat, not to show that a fat woman can be healthy and beautiful.

They needed her to be "larger than life".

111. DJ left...

Sure you do James. I believe someone who gets as defensive as you do (that was sarcasm btw).

You may be right Mamasan but why did the male character have to be a larger man? Why not a skinnier comedian like Jim Carrey?

112. James left...

IN many ways you showed me that you are having trouble understanding men. It's not about looks, in the entertainment world it's about money. What sells, men don't look at t.v. for what's hot, we have are minds set on what we like from the start and nothing can change that. Woman can't trick men into liking them, men can do that to woman. Look the part, and you good. It was about a fat woman being seen as a skinny woman. There are plenty of un attractive female actors on t.v. Like the best show on t.v. Third Watch. and all other shows. Law and order. Rosan. Think about the Business not the look.

113. DJ left...

And in many ways you've showed me why you don't have a loving relationship.

114. James left...

Now where talking, let me know what you think. :)

115. Mamasan left...

DJ, that was probably to highlight the hypocrisy of his being so shallow...as if because he's not so great looking, he shouldn't have any physical preferences. The whole thing is bogus.

By the way, I have a certain policy about dealing with trolls and the insane. Some guys here are not really very nice. They're failed jocks who think that they're nice and being mistreated, just because they're too stupid to have stopped chasing cheerleaders.

You're not going to find them making any more sense than they did when they were giving the really nice guys wedgies in high school. I choose to treat them the same as I did since I was in high school, and basically make them humiliate themselves, and then ignore them.

They wouldn't understand a conversation like this. You'll pass out holding your breath waiting for them to, and waste breath trying to explain.

116. DJ left...

I'm sorry, your grammar and spelling are throwing me off. I had to read "Now where talking" a few times before I realized you meant "Now we're talking". I am by no means a spelling/grammar nazi, but some of the things you write are difficult to understand.

Besides, I'm off to the comedy club. You can stay here and argue with yourself.

117. James left...

Look DJ I won't be giving you my phone number, and when you Stop pretending and be your self fat girl then you will be much better off.................

118. will left...

I have these two friends who have problems with females. One is a nice guy while the other one is a phoney nice guy.

My friend who is a nice guy I can respect. He is genuinely nice to everyone. He doesn't expect any reward for his kindness. He treated all his females with respect and kindness. The only thing about that is that the females don't treat him with the same respect or kindness. But that doesn't get him down about him finding a girlfriend. Even after the idiot that I hooked him up with had cheated and the situation with his ex-fiance, he doesn't dwell on it and says that he will find that somebody or they will find him. He is still nice to everyone including the idiot girl.

My phoney nice guy friend is a different story though. He feels that his kindness must be rewarded and he constantly gives girls gifts thinking they should repay him by getting in bed with him. It never works. He comes off as desperate and at times demanding to females. His continuously believes that every female he knows, spoke to or has treated kind owes him. Weather it be friendship, sex, a relationship, something. I told him to stop this type of thinking but he won't listen. He now has a type of hatred for females but that's a different story. He will be alone forever which is sad to say about my friend but it's the sad truth.

I can respect a guy if he is nice to everyone and doesn't expect any type of reward. These are the guys who I think deserves a good female and hope they find one soon. The guys who are phoney need to be real with themselves and stop trying to think the world owes them for thier kindness cause its not working

119. James left...

Yes I know lots of guys like that, nobody owes me shit, and I owe nothing to nobody. I aunderstand the dept. that people go to get attention they end up getting out of their true charactor every time. It is in you best interest. To explain to him that it's just the plane world and people in it. NO rules apply for him, but around him. This means that what you do has nothing to do with what other people do, mean the reaction isn't about you, it's about them. YOu being nice has nothing to do with how they feel about you. It's just their reaction not an obligation to apply to your rules of.....I did this so you have to do this.....That's not the world, if that were so..Americans would never have did what they did 300 years ago.

• The reaction factor can play in your hands if you understand the results you get when things are done right.......Just know a females reaction isn't logical, and neither is love. You can't sit in this blog and figure out a way to make love in a can and go give it to her............A red rose means nothing to a woman who hasn't felt anything for you. But it means everything if you have. And for the most part you only need one.

• Woman like Rich men, but it's the money not them, and they will use you. The ones who just up and sex you just because your Rich, and foolish woman and know nothing about holdint down a relationship not to mention a family. Think about the way things are going on around you. Know it is not logical. Why do woman like NBA players.

• Why do woman fall out when Thom Cruiz walks in. Take a good look, he isn't that hot. The reality of the game is so simple, but we all know that simple isn't so simple anymore. Not when you have grown up complex...................and woman grew up complex.

120. Mamasan left...

Will, I have friends like that (pseudo nice) too. It's sad to hear the same story, "I'm a nice, smart, physically attractive, professional man. I'm the kind of guy women say they want. How come I can't seem to find someone to settle down with?" or, "Why did she leave me?"

I've watched most of them get into relationships and ruin them. What it basically boils down to is an inability to relate to women, and the lack of will to learn how to. They're holding on too tightly to their illusions.

Some get lucky and find their matching Stepford wife, but those women are becoming fewer and farther between because it's not really a safe lifestyle unless your family has alot of money. Such women are also finding fewer men willing to be the incubator for a credit card.

121. Bob Red left...

I work in engineering, a field that is considered to be less sexy that being an undertaker (in the UK at least!) Anyway, its a male dominated environment, and im sad to say that as soon as someone remotely female walks through the door, the place turns into a cattle market, with the guys practically falling over themselves to help the ladies out. I wonder why. I think being a guy, the answer is obvious!

I would hate to be a woman in the place where i work as there would come a time where i would start to wonder exactly WHY people were being so nice to me. I think the more shocking revalation is that the guys actually BELIEVE that by doing this trival thing that would help her out, it might end up with them in bed together! (I think the world is full of those "phoney nice guys" Or at least the place where i work is anyway)

122. James left...

Yes but I would love to be in that situation as a man among woman......................:)

123. DJ left...

>>Look DJ I won't be giving you my phone number, and when you Stop pretending and be your self fat girl then you will be much better off................. <<

Calling me fat is pretty much the only ammo you got isn't it? It's fun to watch you grasp at straws.

124. DJ left...

Bob, I know what you mean about being the only girl in a workplace full of guys. I work in an engineering field also, and there are only a few women where I work, and I am the only one on my shift. I get away with so much. And I love to flirt, and the guys I work with love to oblige. Nobody I work with ever crosses the line, so I enjoy it.

125. James left...

Next time DJ aim a little lower, it appears that I am the only reason you came into this blog..........Enjoy

126. DJ left...

>>Next time DJ aim a little lower,<< Why? I wouldn't hit anything.

>>it appears that I am the only reason you came into this blog<< But you are hardly a reason to stay. I do enjoy chatting with people who seem to have sense like Bob and Mamasan, as well as people like you.

127. James left...

Now I know you a young little heffa. The way you come at me reminds me of the 8th grade. I understand you anger, you get little next to no attention from men. My being very attractive affects you, and the fact that you commented on my looks never have seeing befor lets me know my effect on you.

• Just as I did with other females in here I am testing you.....................................you failed.

128. DJ left...

>>My being very attractive affects you<<

You know, I can't see you, right?

>>and the fact that you commented on my looks never have seeing befor lets me know my effect on you. <<

Umm, you commented on my looks, I must have an effect on you too, huh?

>>Just as I did with other females in here I am testing you.....................................you failed.<< Good thing it wasn't a spelling test, I wouldn't have been the one to fail.

129. DJ left...

>>The way you come at me reminds me of the 8th grade.<<

Your lack of spelling and grammar skills reminds me of 8th grade. Hell, maybe even elementary school.

130. Bob Red left...

The women do it at our place too DJ! But then the guys probably deserve it!

This is a very interesting blog! Looks like I may become a regular round these parts!

131. Tommy left...

DJ - I have nothing against older women dating younger men. In fact, I think Ashton Kutcher is a lucky dude for dating Demi Moore.

Mamasan - I know there are plenty of heavy-set women who are attractive. The guys who don't give them the time of day because of their size are missing out.

132. will left...

I see alot of guys act nice to females at my job only to be ignored by them. I stopped trying to talk to alot of them. I see them in the same light as the ones I see on the street, just another female. It entertains me to see the guys trying to talk to these females and act all nice only to see them get in their boyfriends car and drive of in front of them. Hell I got three of them interested in me and all I do is say hi. Funny how they do so much and get nowhere while others do so little and get so far with them.

133. James left...

I didn’t comment on you looks exactly it was your character not you. The way you speak to me is that similar of a very unattractive female. The ideology that you portray is hideous and you have succeeded in being a fool at a game that should be ignored. The only females that come into these blogs are the really ugly ones............and that’s not looks, it’s anger. I analize what woman will say, they tend to have lots of anger at the world, and in reality woman like you are upset about them selves.........and who wants to date an older woman who has been through all that drama losing her looks, and only doing it because she failed at every other jack ass, so now she’ settling for you........I’ll keep em young Tommy.

And as for my spelling I don’t care much for it my typing sucks and I just type. You still get my message. For the most part I don’t see any reason to dwell in your foolish mad at the world antics for long, I like to toy with peoples anger when they are being rude, or say things that are just plane stupid and completly out of contents. You are obviously old and out of shape according to your blog, and if your having trouble with men now...............you my dear are screwed, and will be alone for the rest of you life. Enjoy

134. Tommy left...

From what I've heard, older women are more appreciative whereas younger women are less greatful. Besides, not every older woman looks like life has caught up with them.

135. James left...

Yes but I gotta tell you tommy when woman in my area get past 25 they allways gain weight and loose all of thier looks. They don't realize it when they are young as to how likely they are to get jobba on us, but they allways do. Thier are so many old fat single angry woman running arround my parts............Every single femlae I grew up with except maybe 4 Are fat and out of shape ulgly and they still run arround lost behaving like their 21.............I am 29, and I don't see my self dating any of these Shit on loggs any time soon.

136. Dave left...

I feel it's important that I speak of other people as human beings no matter how they look and no matter what mistakes they've made. By mistreating others or speaking badly of them I actually am diminishing myself. Sure I get angry with their behavior sometimes but I get over it as soon as possible.

Eventually, when I become perfect, I'll bust on them.;)

137. James left...

Dave that's a wus mind state, you gotta take charge and stand your ground right there and then. If you get over it, then you will be getting over new bull shit every dang day. Woman know you for just that, woman test to see just how far they can push you, if you let it go, she will let you go. I can remember events of test I failed, that i can only look at now, I didn't realize I was being tested then but I now realize how bad I did.

• With other men in my area, YOU HAVE GOT TO STAND YOU GROUND QUICK OR YOU WILL FIND YOU SELF FUCKED WITH BY EVERY JACK ASS IN THE CITy, and no woman will want you.

138. James left...

Remember this from up top Dave "Nice guys are so eager to please that they rarely speak up when something bothers them. Thus, they can make their girlfriends feel guilty when they say, "Everything I did, I did for you"."

mortalez posted Tuesday, 11 January 2005

139. DJ left...

Is that all you can do, comment (or speculate) on my looks, James? Reading your posts is like watching a comedian bomb onstage. You know he's trying his best to get some sort of reaction, and it's a little bit painful to watch. What you are saying isn't funny, but what you are trying to do is. Now try hard to come up with something that might be even slightly offensive, or at least original.

And it's not your typing that sucks, it's your spelling and grammar.

>>that are just plane stupid and completly out of contents. <<

the word should be "context". Contents is a completely different word with a completely different meaning. There is no way I can ever take you seriously, but reading your posts is like trying to decode a secret message sometimes.

140. Dave left...

I can stand my ground by being assertive and I do. Not by being cruel. I just think it's a bad idea to put others down no matter what. If women are so twisted I need to act like a total jerk to attract them then I want to be without them. That doesn't mean I'm a doormat. A few women don't want total jerks. Those are the ones I'm interested in. What's right for you James are not right for everyone. "Still, I would defend you to the death for your right to your own opinion." -Voltaire

141. James left...

Dave not that I’m being rude, Dj is a punching bag. I am only saying that when ever a person attempts to try you, or just push you, you just let em know where you stand and they will either back down or just starting showing how easy it is to keep up on edge. Most people look for fights and they will focus their lives on you, and finding ways to put you down. Their lives become yours, because they don't have one...........These people are bad news and you just have to blow em off quick. I handle allot of this with my fist. I broke an bouncers arm a month ago because he tried to chuck me out of the club for no reason. The real reason was because he wanted to talk to the girl that I was hooking up with. I would recommend doing what I do, but when some jack is tries to be the DJ of you anger you just play your own song, and keep em balanced when they start on something like my bad spelling you keep that going and keep em on edge and watch how they keep fumbling over them selves happy that you messed up.

• But if you just lay back and let go, it wont' stop.

Woman are very week in that sense they always try out ways to keep you under, it's just how they keep them selves above, but when you don't let that happen you will be above............and all woman do these things if you say you won't date any female like this and just look for the good ones..you will be looking for a long time, it's like finding a guy that doesn't care to much for sex.....rare but out there.

• I have my Navy Seals mind state sill but I am still lost when it comes to finding out what it takes to balance my ways with the good that could keep a good relationship, sex is all I have ever been able to over come.........and it's getting old. fast.. Most woman have very bad personalities because they were not taught how to be nice to men, it’s not part of their mental computer, they were only taught to manipulate that’s it.

142. DJ left...

You broke a bouncer's arm? Uh-huh.

Does James remind anyone of the dad from the movie "Big Fish"? Except not nearly as charasmatic.

143. James left...

DJ, I have commented on things that attack you entire frame of self, I told you that I found out the you were fat old and ugly by the way you speak. You found me attractive by the way I speak. (When a woman up and says I think I’m all that with out seeing what I look like...she finds me attractive) and all you can do is play with the little errors in a sentence. Everybody who reads my blog entries know how bad my typing and spelling suck. So know that we are above that, why am I so important to you to hurt, if you knew who I was you wouldn’t bother with mediocre shit at all. You would stick to the real reason why you attack me........................I remind you a guy who you wanted but wouldn’t give you the time of day just like a Mam I had these convoes with, I know exactly what you were thinking on every little stroke of a key. I reality you are lonely as hell, and if you had a good dating life, you wouldn’t bother with these blogs as much as you are........I wouldn’t mean much to you at all, and you wold venture of into more interesting blog besides one that says in a nut shell woman are evil as fuck. I don’t believe this Dave LoL. But in many ways I feel very sorry for you, I think you just need a hug, or night of passion, or fuckiing what ever floats you boat.......I try to speak hard, I don’t bite my tongue as I use to. I Say exactly what’s on my mind.... don’t know what pissed you off from the get, but I don’t give a flying shit as to what is was now that you decided to act like a angry old lady, But I am sure you will get over it............. I would like to say that this should not longer continue because I am not this mean person that I may seem to be and I am sure you are looking for much more then a fight with me. In other words end it before I say something that really hurts you, and I don’t like hurting people who don’t deserve it.

144. James left...

Yes fighting isn't a thing I am proud of but yes, I have doen things to people that should not be spoken for, I have no ties with this blog, no face to the words. I just type. I do what ever it takes to defend my self, I grew in a land wher I could sit next to a budy and watch his head explode with a cheap shot gun of a drug dealer who hates hen people don't pay him on time. I served the gov. in places where I had to gave C.P.R and save lives, take a fire hoes to men on fire. That is my life. What about you, is it above you, did you grow up on plane vill?

145. DJ left...

James, I'll have some of the reality altering drugs you are on please. Actually, my reality is pretty cool, so never mind.

146. DJ left...

You realize, some of the things you are trying to say about me, could really apply to you. Not once will you see me bragging about dating a bunch of guys or how attractive I am or how many times I've been shot at or got into a fight because I don't feel the need to impress people. Especially not with tall tales I know they aren't going to believe anyway.

Why do you feel so insecure that you need to convince people you don't even know about how great your life is?

And why should I let it go? Your silly analysis of me is entertaining and I'm sure others reading this are quite entertained as well.

147. Mamasan left...

Dave, I believe in freedom of speech, but I also believe that this includes freedom from speech...which is something everyone on the internet has.

It's your site, and your rules. If there are none, then I hope you won't mind if I take my gloves off the next time our village idiot starts ticking.

148. James left...

Ok I didn't bring up my looks you did, and I never spoke about my fighting until you ran you little mouth about who I was. And I don't give a dang about those girls. You don't know much about much, and I can see why you are in this blog board.............you have no life and you probably own a blow up doll a few dildos and a hole shit load of porn flicks, that would be your entertainment, not me, I just wish you would shut the hell up, I am not giving you my phone number. I am a graphic designer, I am at the computer all the time.........what about you. I don't think your being entertained at all, I am sure you pissed. And as you can read in the other blogs in here I leave marks on people who like to take things to far.

• you and I both know that, I get under you skin, and if didn't you wouldn't bother. The village has lights of side show attractions I can see and we shouldn't feed the animals Dave they bite.

149. Dave left...

When I feel someone is going too far with negative rhetoric I don’t respond. By responding you’ve let them know their words are having a powerful affect on you. Big mistake! I’m sorry, but I’ve been waiting to see if you stop responding. But you’re all intelligent people so I know you are aware of this. Just don’t reply to what you feel are ridiculous statements. Don’t dignify them with a response.

150. DJ left...

James, your hissyfits are funny.

Dave, you are right. But I thinks it's funny to watch James try to shut me up.

151. Dave left...

Comedy and pain are so close in the human mind. ;)

152. Mamasan left...

Dave, it's not that he's here and being an ass. It's that you're rewarding him for it.

I seem to have been very mistaken about the intent of this site.

Those of you who want to, know where to find me.

153. Dave left...

It is not the intent of this site to advise you. The intent is to post ideas and to receive your feedback and your point of view. I allow everyone to speak even when I don't agree with them.

Mamsan was one of the best contributors to this site. I'm sincerely sorry to see her go. I was always interested in her comments and ideas.

154. James left...

DJ that was no his fit, that was me telling you the truth. And as for the both of you MAMASAN and DJ, he was talking about all of us.

• Last words

MAMASAN I don't know why you can't get me out of your head, but I guess I made a very good inprint. I knew I got to you but dang

Dave I am sorry if I took things to far, children can be very nasty, and as an adult I should have handled things better.

But in all I learned allot, wether you like me or not Mrs. Lasher I Picked up a few tips from yah, and I am back from a date with a female friend who looks like Beyonce and so far it went well, college is done, the Job is good, the car is new............yeah, life is good.

155. Tommy left...

Dave - I just got back. What happened?

156. Tommy left...

Where can I find Mamasan now?

157. DJ left...

>>and I am back from a date with a female friend who looks like Beyonce<<

Yeah, cause most guys who go out on a date with a woman who looks like a celebrity rush right home to enter that information on a blog message board. Hey, I went out with a guy who looks like Jay-Z, maybe they could get together and do '06 Bonnie and Clyde?

Anyway....

Even though I didn't agree with everything Mamasan said, she knew how to disagree without sounding like a ranting storyteller, it looks like her opinions will be missed.

158. sophia left...

"Still, I would defend you to the death for your right to your own opinion." -Voltaire

This quote, is also one I adhere to. During the transitional stages pre-democracy in my country (South Africa), the value of this became so apparent. In the discussion to a transitional government all the divergent voices were included, even those on the radical fringes. I truly believe it was this that prevented a bloodshed in our country. To truly make a change you have to acknowledge every aspect of yourself, the good and the bad. If you just ignore the really despicably thoughts that my arise in your mind, suppress it as quickly as you can, without acknowledging it, and bring it into the light, it will fester and erupt when you least expect. In the world at large, this is reflected in terrorism..It is my personal believe that what is inherent in one human being, is inherent in another, the good and the bad, therefore I will listen to everyone even if I disagree totally with them. I never know when I might find a puzzle piece to myself reflected back. I have seen it over and over again; that an attack is just a cry for help. An attack originates from the depth of pain or desperation.

Mamasan, you were helping so many people with your comments, it would indeed be a pity not to hear your voice on this site any more. Will you not for the sake of a good cause return to make your voice heard? How else will people disrespectful behaviour be able to see another perspective?

159. Dave left...

You can find Mamasan at http://kthulah.com

160. Tommy left...

Dave - Thanks.

Keep in mind, I'm not going to stop coming to this site. I just wanted to know where I could reach Mamasan.

161. James left...

And no it wasn't me who ran her off. It has come clear to me that my words are being seen as. The new guy vs. The Veteran. When in every single blog I disagreed with her in, all of the guys agreed with me. She had a short temper and wasn't use to people her attacking her, instead of agreeing with her. If you think I am being of "disrespectful behaviour" Sophia then hey. and DJ if you think jay Z is attractive then you need get you eyes fixed, are you serious, he even said he was ugly. By the way.......LoL the date was right on, dave i liked what you said about not taking advantage of the moment, and just leaning back some, it really works.

162. DJ left...

And if you think anyone believes you went out with a girl who looks like Beyonce, you need to get your head examined.

And the mention of Jay-z was a joke, which , went right over your head (surprise,surprise). And I guess Beyonce needs to get her eyes checked then?

163. James left...

See I only said that to see how much your focus on me. You know nothing about me yet you are denying that I could get an attractive female Beyonce, who the Fuck is she!!??. What makes you think that I can’t? You, are showing your self..........And what is so special about her looks, you know nothing about me or her, and yet you are claiming that everybody would disagree that I dated a girl that pretty. I have been all over the world with woman beyond beyonce, or any of those so-called top females. I also said it to see how you would view her, by your telling me that I could never get her, that tells me you truly are unattractive because if you weren't you would say. That dating a female that pretty isn't that big of a deal. Her beauty doesn't make her untouchable and it doesn’t mean anything to my potential, that thinking says allot about you, and it also makes me realize that I was talking to a wall.

• The fact that you just up and denied that I could get a female that pretty, explains the real reason of you anger, and the fact that you can’t leave me alone. You want revenge; you want to make me feel bad, because it would make you feel good inside. It would help you get over that guy who used and abused you, and It would also massage you brain into thinking you life is better. When infact, I am not a real person, I am just a paragraph of words, that you could easily ignore, if you had better blogs to read…………………………………………………………………….But you don’t, and that says allot about you.

I don’t see you name anywhere ells but here, I dang near keep up with Dave in the blogs when I can, I a read all kinds of blogs, but you………..LOL you just log on to see how much truth I pulled out of you sorry ass today. Set yourself up again and I may say something that really hits home. And as I said I would like to leave it at that, because “I DON’T WANT TO HURT SOMEONE WHO DOESN’T DESERVE IT.” So lay it down lady.

164. DJ left...

And look how much you focus on me. 2 paragraphs.

165. DJ left...

My bad, 3 paragraphs. Impressive.

BTW, I see how much is irritates you that I won't "lay it down", so I will NEVER lay it down. I don't take orders from some stranger on a message board.

166. Tommy left...

James - I have to disagree with you because there were plenty times where I disagreed with Mamasan, yet she never tried to berate me. Just ask everybody on this blog.

167. DJ left...

Right Tommy, as I said before, I didn't agree with everything Mamasan has said, but she was always gracious and mature, and when I came to this blog that's what I thought I would see. And for the most part, I have, thanks to everyone who knows how to express there own opinion without getting defensive, launching into their "life" story, or isssuing silly threats.

168. will left...

Mamasan was respectful to all of us. Wheater you disagreed with her or not she showed everyone respect and all she wanted was the same respect back. Everyone needs to respect everyone's opinions and views and not attack someone cause their's are different from yours. There is no need to attack people at all. Mamasan come on this blog to be helpful to people who needed help and voice her opinions. Some of us forget this is a place to voice opinions and views freely with out being attacked. Not everyone will have the same outlook as you. It's time some of us need to start acting like adults. I'm not saying I'm innocent in anyway or form cause in a way I kinda feel guilty for her leaving and I'm not going to play the blame game so we all need to grow up. Respect each other and not attack one another.

169. James left...

Well I don't remember the blog. But after I made my comment that wasn't directed to her she just up and told me I was a young, kid who needs help. I still don't know why she said that but she got worst and worst in every single blog.............The thing that hit her was the fact that I said............"NO woman should get fat on her husband, woman should allways stay in shape, being fat is unattractive......the she just blew up. Then came along the little DJ who as you can see is triped the fuck out.

• I won't bother with it.

I love Daves imput. Tommy you funny as hell, and just as angry as me. I like that, BoB is the Man. But hey I like bloging these blogs are way to good to be fighting like that, just disagree and move on with you happy little lives.........

My question. Is big Dave if you don't mind I would really appreciate it if you turn this into a blog.

I just met the girl, she said she had a boyfriend, but she gave me the number anyway......Not bad ha....She looks like about a 9 the body a 15 on a ten scale. I am wondering about the first phone call. I know about not having all out conversations on the phone, and to only call to set up a date, but this is different.

What would you say would be the first move on that guys and gals.??

170. DJ left...

Still making up stories James? I got to admit, this one is slightly more believable than the Beyonce story.

171. DJ left...

>>I am not going to get into much but this should help. I am 28 live in ct, and I am having a horrble time getting woman.<<

I feel a little bit guilty for laughing at your contradictory, strangely worded bio.

172. Dave left...

James said, "What would you say would be the first move on that guys and gals.??" - James, don't use the word FAT in anything you say to her. :) Seriously though, just tell her you'd like to get to know her. Don't focus on her beauty. Don't even bring up the fact that you think she's beautiful. She's already had heard that a hundred thousand times. Get her to talk about herself. Don't talk too much about yourself. Anyone else?

173. Dave left...

James said, "I just met the girl, she said she had a boyfriend, but she gave me the number anyway." - Some dating experts say it's easier to steal another guys girlfriend than to find one of your own. Doesn't speak well of altruism does it?.

174. James left...

No not realy Dave. (Dj you must have no friends at all) I think the woman with boyfriends are allways looking, but you have to top that first, it's hard to top em after awhile. YOu really gotta put on the top game. I am sure I can get her to sleep with me, but It's not about that..............It's about keeping em, for more then just sex.

• I allwasy give off the vibe to woman that they can just sleep with em for a while and just up and leave, I want them to want to stay for the company of me. I am 29 and that shit's getten old.

175. James left...

Wow, Dj!!!! I sure do want you tah shut the fuck up for about ten years. :)

176. Mamasan left...

Dave, the problem is that as they say, "The way you get them is the way you lose them."

177. Dave left...

That's right Mamasan, another guy will steal her from you. And the cycle cintinues.

178. James left...

I don't know guys, I don't believe in (if she cheated on him to get you, then she will cheat on you). Maybe he's just not what she wanted.........Why bond a woman like that. We make it seem like woman have to hold on and make shit work with these sorry jack asses they often choose... If we want them to leave the jerks for nice guys we should let them walk away to the next guys with out being called cheater for life.

Give em a break i'll say.

179. James left...

I look back, at the lead forum post, and I realize that I am cant' think this way with the woman who posted this. She is a woman who won't play by the rules I spoke of.

180. DJ left...

James, maybe I could just make up knowing people the way you do?

181. DJ left...

BTW, it's good to see you back Mamasan.

182. James left...

DJ read back. You say something stupid every single time. Leave MAMASAN out of this, you little lady are not on her level, and as for mine. You just keep making your self look like a stalker.

• Please stop, and move on.

183. James left...

We put other people down because it makes some of us feel superior. If someone is lacking in some area it is a defense mechanism to undermine someone else and say "LOOK! They aren't so hot either!" and perhaps deflect attention from what they consider their own faults. BUT know this: IT ain’t about you baby...no one gives a shit about the little imperfections.. Be real be nice and you'll be ok...I promise

Yvonne

posted Thursday, 30 June 2005

184. DJ left...

>>Please stop, and move on.<<

I'll move on when I am ready, and nothing you say is going to change that. If I were stalking you, wouldn't I go to all the other blogs you post on? Please get over yourself.

And you will note that my referring to Mamasan was in a completely different post.

185. Mamasan left...

James, if I were in your situation (which I wouldn't allow myself to be, but let's just say), I'd try to make a clean slate and lay off of people. I'd rather learn netiquitte the easy way than the hard way.

186. James left...

MAMASAN I tried a hundred times with the Nut bag, she has some serious issues, I should have noticed this with her first response calling me unatractive and never have seen me before, that can't be good.

• I am hoping I can just leave the bikkering behinde with you. A little fight is pennies to grown people, she is a child, and in dieing need of a serious hug..........wanna give it to him/her.

187. Mamasan left...

Always some excuse.

She said this and that, and you *hope* you can stop bickering.

"There is no try. There is only do or do not." --- Yoda

188. DJ left...

>> she has some serious issues<, That is definately the pot calling the kettle black.

189. DJ left...

>>she has some serious issues,<< That is definately the pot calling the kettle black.

190. James left...

Somebody anybody, give her a hug, her parents did something to her.

191. DJ left...

Yeah, my parents did something to me, they taught me not to put up with someone who is an idiot. Guess I didn't really learn the lesson too well though.

192. will left...

I had read back what mortalez thought of nice guys and in my opinion what is described is not really a nice guy but a desperate guy. There is a huge difference beteen the two. Nice guys aren't in anyway as passive as desperate guys. Desperate guys are guys who think that being a passive person is a easy way to get girls and make friends. They will agree with what you say all the time, go out there way to do what ever you say, will be needy and clingy, and has no self opinion thus agreeing with what ever you say. They almost act like nice guys which is why nice guys get such a bad name from females. Nice guys do out the kindness of their hearts. They give respect but want respect back. They do for their women cause it's the right thing to do (in their opinion) and don't look for rewards. Desperate guys do. Females need to know the difference between nice guys and desperate guys. Desperate guys usually try to disguse themselves but it doesn't help. Nice guys will stay nice regardless. Learn the differences.

193. Dave left...

A Nice Guy is a kind and considerate man but won't be a doormat. Nice Guy syndromeis a deperate kiss up guy. Labels.

194. James left...

Dave and will, that is the problem. Womand don't know this, you somed it up good, Dave you should post up wills coment as a new blog I would love to see what woman would say on that. Will again awsome respons.

I think I was first a desperate guy, then a nice guy, then a guy, now a some what bad boy with nice points to my persona

195. DJ left...

Will and Dave, if only more men could be as smart,sensible and perceptive as you two, then there would probably be a lot less inane arguements on message boards. Thanks to men like you, there is hope.

196. James left...

DJ.............Why?

197. DJ left...

Why what? What are you talking about now?

198. James left...

You hanging on my every word, hoping I would say something els to help ad some meaning to you pointless life.

199. DJ left...

So why did you answer a post that was addressed to Will and Dave?

200. DJ left...

You know James, you don't really seem smart or perceptive enough to come up with anything accurate to say about me, so I can just assume every insult you try to sling at me is something that can probably be said about you. For instance:

"You hanging on my every word, hoping I would say something els to help ad some meaning to you pointless life."

Well, it seems that you hang on my every word, even ones that aren't addressed to you. Again, this is the pot calling the kettle black. Now I know this is your attempt to try to put me in my place, but I find it more amusing than offensive.

201. James left...

That's Because your to stupid to realize you should stop..........You have no idea what this is doing to you.........do you?

202. DJ left...

>>You have no idea what this is doing to you.........do you? <<

I can kinda see what it's doing to you, therefore I will post on here for as long as I want. And there's nothing you can do about it.

203. DJ left...

>>That's Because your to stupid to realize you should stop<<

You can't make a statement about me that doesn't apply to you also, can you?

204. James left...

LoL, now your open, you are serioulsly seeking attention, i'm going to tell you mother little girl, now you go to your room and be good or you won't get no ice cream.

205. James left...

DJ, you jack ass, you think this is the only Blog I post comments. I have blogs of my own yah fluke.

206. DJ left...

>>you are serioulsly seeking attention<<

And what are you seeking? Something you aren't ever going to get probably.

207. DJ left...

>>DJ, you jack ass<< Uh-oh, somebody's all cranky.

>>I have blogs of my own yah fluke.<< I don't care, I can keep you coming back every day to this one.

208. DJ left...

You went from "LOL" to calling me a "jackass"? What a mood swing! :-D

209. Mark left...

Trust me DJ you are a jack ass, you are stalking the hell out of that guy.

210. DJ left...

Well thanks for your two-cents Mark. It isn't going to change anything, but thanks anyway.

211. DJ left...

Mark, I noticed your "bio" page was created July 7th, which is today. It is strangely similar to James' bio page. You created an account just to call me a "jack ass"? Talk about silly.

212. Bob left...

James will grow up one day.

213. DJ left...

I don't think he realizes most of the things he has said about me can apply to him also. At least I don't try to say things like "I hope we can move on" and then turn around and sling another insult. I may be immature, but I'm not phony like that.

214. Mamasan left...

DJ, James is definitely phoney. If he's 205 lbs. then I'm 105 lbs.

I don't know how he figured nobody would find out.

215. elizabeth left...

I am a women i'm not a bitch or a slut and i really wish i could find a nice guy.And no i don't want to be beaten by jerks.I don't deserve that, nobody does not even closed-minded people like yourself.Obviously you don't like women very much and you think they derserve this and that.How do you know what a women wants your so full of hate and bitterness how can you tell.You need to pray to god to get rid of your hate out of your heartand then maybe you can tell.

216. Al Bundy left...

I didn't read this whole thread. I just read the top and a few responses. Whoever made that list...well why doesn't she just date assholes then? Then she can complain about how they treat her like shit. I'd like to see her resulting list about why assholes are bad, too. Lol. I guess then she would become a lesbian?

Pros and cons, people. I am sure that "nice women" have their drawbacks too, but I would take whatever issues a "nice woman" has over issues a "bitch" has any day. Because looky here, who's more likely to screw you over?

So the women who say "nice guys" are insecure wussy boys, go date your jerks. Just don't come back proclaiming all men are dogs when they cheat on you.

217. A MEMBER OF NO "NO MA'AM" left...

This is a damn shame. It's real sad that you people would sit up here and put down "geeks" or "nerds" because of the way they act towards women. Now, me not being a nerd at all, respect all people and it's just the main reason why they act the way they do is because none of you sonsabitches (meaning women) never gave them the time of day. So they would've had atleast some experience with the opposite sex. I mean, ya'll actually don't like to be pampered when you deserve it? They do that. Now, off of that, this woman who made this peice of toliet paper whiping really needs to stop and think about what she typed or she's a f'n dyke. The prognosis of a good man is man that is not a mama's boy but a man who can be sympathetic to your candor and feelings about things. But some of you women can't stand that shyt. So there is no pleasing you(Goldmember).

i'VE HAD IT, IF ANY WOMEN DON'T LIKE A NICE GUY, YOU CAN GO TO HELL AND SUCK SATIN WHILE RIDING THE BOAT DOWN THE RIVER STYX...ASSHOLES.

218. Ali left...

"If you want to be respected, you must become respectable." - Hey, that's the same exact thing I used to say to my ex. In those exact words. Creepy.

I read this entire thread...it started off a decent topic. Next time folks let's not go back and forth w/ insults, it distracts away from the discussion and accomplishes nothing. Peace.

219. James left...

I have no idea why MAMASAN said that I wasn't 205, that doesn't make sense. But I will say that men attempting to attack woman for not liking them are not make any progress, you're just making it seem like they are actually doing them selves a favor. You are making it seem like the best choice really is the bad boy. Bad boys are not on this site whining and pouting about woman. No woman wants a man who can't keep his cool. They know how difficult they can be, and for the most part they know they need help controlling those crazy emotions they have. They are Woman love them so what they are nutty some times. You have to be able to control them, and they will not try to see that in you. You gotta show em. You can't expect woman to think logically in terms of what makes more sense the bad boy or the nice guy. They could give a shit about how nice and respectful you can treat them. They like to argue it's fun and it keeps the flame alive. They want it to be difficult to get to a point with you. They want to feel like if they mouth off you will knock the shit out of them. But won’t, they will ask you for things they do not need to see if you will give it. A smile will pop up a hug and a kiss. While deep inside she is thinking...........WHAT A WUSSBAG. Yeah that's woman for yah. The pleasure they can offer, the affection, the smell of their hair, the sweet sound of their voice, and how they can make you feel when you are considered their king.

220. DJ left...

I look at some of the "advice" offered here by guys who have no clue and I feels sorry for the guys who are taking this advice seriously.

221. Tommy left...

DJ - What advice would you offer them? Also, what would be the pros and cons of taking your advice?

222. Tommy left...

DJ - What advice would you give to other guys?

223. DJ left...

Well they can take the advice of guys who seem to have trouble with having relationships with women, or from a woman who's been in a real relationship for two years and has never had a problem attracting people.

My advice is to not be a phony. Don't be a phony "bad boy" and don't be a phony "nice guy". Believe it or not, women can sense when you are being a phony and the right woman will leave you and the wrong woman will take advantage of you.

Also, when it comes to shyness, why does only seem to apply to relationships with the opposite sex? I've never heard of someone being to shy to apply for a job. I think people rely on "being shy" as an excuse for not trying at all. People need to stop making excuses as to why they can't and at least try. The worst that can happen is the person you ask out says no, and you haven't lossed anything. And you can't just be turned down by one person and decide to give up.

And yes I have asked out guys and have been turned down, so I know what if feels like.

224. James left...

That's not advice that's you, telling us we are sorry. We men have to give advice to each other because woman don't know whey they are attracted to the men they are atracted to, nor do they know why they pick a jack ass over a stable man. This isn't about nice guys or bad boys, this is about stable men being passed over for thugs in the street. We men see it, we see perfect woman (so to speak) walking about around with dirt bags. This wouldn't be a problem if woman did not do the fallowing.

1) Say that they really want a stable man, but keep dating dirt bags. This cause stable men to want to learn bad boy tactits, and it works.

2) Say all men are dogs after being dogged out by a man who she knew would do it, but she would most certainly do it again.

3) Marry us down the line, but kick us to the curb take half and run right back to the dirt bag to get slaped up, and tell the world men beet woman.

4) Turn into lesbians and blame all men istead of the jack ass she dated last week.

Etc. I have so many more.

225. Bob left...

Being yourself is key. But, the important point here is to HAVE A LIFE - woman are part of your life - not your life. Nice guys tend to put woman way up on a pedestal - nad for business. BUT, this is also learning how to behave properly. 'Nice Guys' don't realize how woman think and operate.

• "Bad boys are not on this site whining and pouting about woman." - James my man - you are beginning to get it! You have said some really smart thinsg here lately. That is a GREAT point.

226. DJ left...

See James, instead of giving me a little credit for at least trying to offer some real advice and not just saying what guys want to hear and agree with, I get criticized and you provide excuse after excuse and shift blame.

227. James left...

BOB you are talking to a man who has found him silf on his knees in tears looking up and saying. For the love of god what am I doing wrong. I know what woman are worth, the more I learn the more I see my self not being able to be a bad boy. Sure I can get into a fist fight witha guy, tell a woman how crapy she is. But if I like her, all that goes right out the window. I am reading David DeAngelos book now. Just started the other day, I realize that he doesn't tell you how to keep a girl only how to get one. I get him, woman are not here to hurt, but they have a funny way of showing it. Yes their are some out there who would enjoy hurting a man, those are the woman who dated bad boys far past her teens. LOL those woman are what we call. "MAN EATERS" and they have been known to so some serious damage, and cause men to do things they thought they would never do. So watch it, guys because most fo them are by far the sexiest woman on the planet. They will always smile and say things they will make you think she is the best thing that has ever happen to you.

228. Tommy left...

DJ - I have to say that you sounded like a snob in the first paragraph. But, everything you said in the rest of the post sounded like good advice.

229. DJ left...

Well I didn't mean to sound like a snob. It just gets old seeing people post about treated someone badly as a way to get a relationship. How stable can a relationship be if it's built on ways to hurt each other?

230. Bob left...

James - read The Dating Dictionary in the download files. It's by Doc Love - he'll tell you how to keep her.

• "But if I like her, all that goes right out the window." - happens to the best of us.

231. Bob left...

DJ - you have 100% wrong - we NEVER say to treat a woman badly - ever. It's just NOT to be an Ass-kisser - you'd ahte that as well. A guy alwasy agreeing with you etc.

232. Dave left...

More from women authors

233. A MEMBER OF "NO MA'AM" left...

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, YOU HAVE JUST WITNESSED BITCH FEST 2005.

234. James left...

It's not a bitch fest it's angry people, people who are just fed up with the world telling them the wrong way to go about getting a date. Men being put down by the feminist movement about being mean to woman then woman telling them the same thing and turn around and date the guy the feminist bitches told them not to be. Society has a good hold on men, and lots of control over woman. Men don't watch T.V. to learn how to behave, they learn how to fake it to get woman. If that's what you want pretty lady then so be it. is what men say. No there is no right or wrong in this game. I can't sit here and say that the bible for dating is a good one. For it is by any means a dam good way of getting you fucked for life? You can't be a good guy all your life, the world won't let you, and if you chose to ignore the world you will become a victom of society. Women often prey on nice guys like eagles on a limb. Woman like this haven’t hit me yet; I in most cases don't have much to offer but sex. They could care less about my mind or my good qualities. They are man-eaters, and have no mercy on their pray. The Law protects these women, and children shield them, they give these women the mother profile, you know everybody but woman and children. Go to war. If you really look at the big picture we are seriously hurting each other, and the Feminist are seriously hurting woman, causing them to screw them selves over, and over again. What's a nice guy to do in this field of chaos, not much, but you can bet that nice guy finish last thing will always kick in, but you have to want it, it won't fall in your lap, and always know...WOMAN WILL ALLWAYS BE WOMAN, SO EVEN IF SHE IS SETTLING WITH YOU, SHE WILL STILL CRAVE THE BAD BOY. The is allot more to this missing parts but enough for U to get my point, I made it short so I know you guys will read it.

235. DJ left...

It's not that hard to get a date. It's not rocket science, why you guys try to make it more complicated that it is, I don't know.

236. Ali left...

To me, it's not getting a date that's a problem. It's turning that date into something meaningful and long lasting w/o all the unneccessary bullshit because of all the double standards and damn near mission impossibles we have to go thru to keep a woman happy, IMO.

237. Bob left...

I think you put too much into it Ali - don't worry about that crap. It's your inner game you have to change. That stuff shouldn't matter. Read DD.

238. Andy - UK left...

I have read all the comments, and I agree all women crave a bad guy, and know all women love to moan about the bad guy they are dating or even worse married to. I don't claim to understand but that’s the way it is. Many people have said that "Nice Guys" are basically clingy guys with little or no self esteem, and emotional problems. WRONG! I totally disagree. Is it wrong to love someone? To want to be with them, to treat them with respect?? Yeah its good to have your own life as well, but does that really prohibit you showing love to the person you are with, if you cannot, is there any point?? My conclusion is NO! I personally think that you should show the women you are with how you feel, want to be with her, and share your life with her, and she should reciprocate.

Rather than treating a woman like something you have scraped from the sole of your shoe, not wanting to spend time with her, maybe even beating her, in and out of jail etc etc, this in my opinion is not a relationship, its for want of better words a waste of time on both parts, and is a joint existence. These my friends are the people that need help and have issues, issues with life, commitment, the lot. These are the losers, and these are the individuals whom are unable to function in a socially acceptable manner. Excitement is only one part of a successful relationship, and I agree is important, and this is all the so called "Bad Boys" have to offer, hence the relationships never last long. They just meander through life from one woman to another. I would consider myself to be a nice guy. I have many friends, have a successful career and well liked. OK am single, maybe a little shy at times, but I do have my opinions, my beliefs and would not sacrifice them for anything or anyone. If I did, I would not be me. Yeah I believe that if I chose to be with someone (and of course they chose to be with me) I would love them, want to be with them, want them to be happy, would want a connection both physically and mentally, whilst still being me, and importantly not expecting her to change for me. Whilst still going out with the boys and keeping my own circle of friends as she should keep hers. Basically you take people as they are, and love them for who they are. Surely that’s what its all about????? Or am I missing the whole point????? Plus if a woman dates a bad guy she wants a nice guy, if she dates a nice guy, she wants a bad guy. Women are just sometimes a mystery!!!!!!

239. James left...

""Rather than treating a woman like something you have scraped from the sole of your shoe, not wanting to spend time with her, maybe even beating her, in and out of jail etc etc, this in my opinion is not a relationship, its for want of better words a waste of time on both parts, and is a joint existence. These people need help and have issues, issues with life, commitment are...the losers. Excitement is only one part of a successful relationship, and Bad boys can offer this." I summed you up and I agree totally, but treating a woman like this, shoe scrap is what they want, and they try very very very very hard to find a men who will. This isn't something of logic, nor is it something of control. It is inside them they don't know why; they are in many ways fucked. All I ask now a day is that woman STOP SAYING ALL MEN ARE DOGS!!!!! Admit to you stupid choices and leave the rest of us alone. The real problem is woman taking it out on good men. Yes bad boys offer excitement, but you know how happy good men get when beautiful woman come in our lives, we want to do all kinds of things with her. When a man loves a woman (I’ve said this many times here) he will always cling up a bit, some more then others but all will start to act real nice. It’s our nature, woman don't like men who fall in love with them. News flash WOMAN DON'T LIKE MEN WHO FALL IN LOVE WITH THEM!!! Getting a date is HARD VERY HARD, HARDER THEN STEEL. Woman can't understand that because the ball is in their court, nice guys have no game they only know logic, and logic tells them. ** Be respectful nice, compliment her smile hold the door open*** DO THIS AND YOU WILL BE SHOT DOWN JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER GUY ON THE PLANET. Men get shot down so much, it's not looks it's not money it's them. They are just too nice. lol. Good men want one nice girl and go, they don't want to play, they don't care to, they for the most part won't cheat, probably can't. Woman test men, and the men who pass are the ones with game, and men with game are bad boys, woman always say I am tired of the games...Go figure. You complicate the dating seen; make it hard for the right guy to get to you. That's what makes it hard. The stage is set for the players, and nice guys have no clue as to what to do to get to the girl. But sure as hell have the best intentions when and if they ever get to her. (Yes I know I am thinking of my own heart when I speak) I think the control factor is in the hands of the female. The player just knows how to work the field doesn't control the game thoe.

240. Sean of Vegas left...

Catagorizing the nice guy as a boring no lifer is kinda closed minded in its self. Whats wrong with holding the door for a attrative girl so it doesnt hit her in the ass on the way out. Whats wrong with having a lil manners? Whats wrong with being nice to a girl? Sometimes its hard for guys to know what woman really want from men. And it gets us all boggled up wounderin why do these girls go for the other guy and not me. Then thats when the self asteem goes downhill. Then it gets so bad that that you start to obbess hoping that the first girl you meat will be youre last so you dont have lonely no more but youre too shy too scared that she wont feal the same way. THATS PATHETIC! life is about fun, sometimes the rejection is fun in it self. Thats why men have balls, use them and don't be scared, rejection doesnt hurt unless its a kick in the balls ;) Really it depends on the girl, If the girl is a church goer shes gonna like guys who do good deeds and the guy saves children from a burning building. If she likes to party then of course shes gonna go for the bad boy, the bad boy isnt scared to to get too drunk or over dose on drugs or doesnt give a flying puck if he's late for work the next day. If the girl likes hardcore rock and has piercings and ripped up clothes, she isnt gonna go for the Golf t-shirt kaky pants who listens to classical music on the way to tennis. Then agian opposites attract, Ever watch maury? who ever thought a man would fall in love with a midget. It all depends on the type of person you are and the type of person the other sex is. It isnt right to say "ALL" girls like the bad boy tattoo bar fight gang shootin drug dealin mofo. And to say that nice guys are just people who are too shy to express their fealings. Dating is complicated don't let simple ideas like "girls go for bad boys" stuck in youre head and beleive it youre whole life, its all about being confident, being youre self, showing love when its time, not "ALL" the time. Suprises are great but not everday it gets old and its not a suprise. And to top it off don't say "I love you" the 2nd day you meat the person.

241. James left...

It's not wrong to be nice it's logical but woman don't use logic when it comes to choosing a mate they use attraction, and being nice isn't attractive stop using logic I only use it to attack the woman who come in the blog looking for trouble attempting to make sense out of the things woman do.

242. Bob left...

MY GOD!!!! How many times do I have to say this???

You don't treat them badly!!!! Ever!!!

It's being MORE independent, not saying you care - SHOWING you care, not seeking approval, not putting her a head of you, no mush, TEASING them, busting their chops, not taking any crap, making them feel safe with you and that they CAN get upset if they FEEL like it, you having a life and friends.

243. DJ left...

>>MY GOD!!!! How many times do I have to say this??? You don't treat them badly!!!! Ever!!!<<

Maybe you should do like Dave does with statistics and post it 3 or 4 times a day.

244. RAY THOMAS left...

Jesus people. Look, Certain women want nice guys and certain women want Bad Boy fuck ups. That's it! Damn that to what women are gonna say to what i'm about to say and that is this: WE ARE COLLATERAL! COLLATERAL AS IN SEX, MONEY, SHELTER, ETC.-ETC.! We are expected to go through bullshyt to get to a woman's so called "heart". NOW, I KNOW THAT A LOT OF LADIES ARE GONNA ASK: WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE USE MEN AS COLLATERAL? WELL LET ME BREAK YOU OFF A PEICE REAL QUICK LIKE. HERE'S ARE THE WORDS AND EXAMPLES OF WHAT SOME OF YOU ALL BE THINKING AT TIMES.

SEX: CAN THIS MAN STAY HARD FOR OVER THIRTY MINUTES? WHAT SIZE IS HIS PENIS? IS HIS SEX GOOD ENOUGH TO BRAG TO MY GIRLS ABOUT IT. IF NOT, I'LL JUST FRONT HIM OUT TO MY GIRLS ANYWAY.

MONEY: HOW MUCH CAN I GET FROM HIM? IF I DIVORCE HIM, I GET "X" AMOUNT OF DOLLARS. I REALLY DON'T LOVE THE GUY, BUT HE HAS A PORSHCE AND A BEACH HOUSE IN MALIBU.

SHELTER: I STILL LIVE WITH MY PARENTS AND AT 21 I REALLY NEED TO FIND A PLACE TO STAY. I'M REALLY ATTRACTED TO THIS GUY THAT ACTS LIKE HE'S NOT INTO ME AND I FIND THAT REALLY SEXY. WHILE THE SPARK IN MY CURRENT RELATIONSHIP IS DYING OFF. IT'S JUST THAT I HAVE NOWHERE ELSE TO GO AND HE TREATS ME LIKE A QUEEN SO HOW CAN I HAVE BOTH WITHOUT HURTING ANYBODY?

You see, the hidden meanings in this are simple to the untrained EYE. And I know a lot of women are saying sterotypical stuff. But STOP FOOLING YOURSELVES! FOR GOD'S SAKES TELL THE GOT DAMN TRUTH! AT TIMES, A RAY AMOUNT OF YOU WOMEN DO THINK AND REALLY ACT THIS WAY!!!! STOP COMMING ON HERE SAYING THAT THIS SHYT AIN'T TRUE AND OWN UP TO THIS SHYT! DAMNIT! Now, i'm calm.

Now, any questions......

(BY THE WAY, I'M DEAD ASS SERIOUS WITH WHAT I JUST SAID IN ALL CAPS! STOP BITCHIN'!)

245. DJ left...

Isn't Ray Thomas that dude who created Wendy's? No, wait a minute, that's Dave Thomas, nevermind.

246. Bob left...

"Maybe you should do like Dave does with statistics and post it 3 or 4 times a day."

I do. ;-)

But I should.

247. Salvador Escobar left...

The best approach for a man is not to overextend himself when it comes to dating or when it comes down to a relationship. Women simply interpret manners, chivalry, kindness, etc. as "weakness". You've got to limit it. Women won't tell you these things, but they'll go out with you to get food, entertainment, & compliments. As soon as you leave or even during the date, they've got some other guy lined up who's deemed "worthy" to clean up, or you'll get some sort of bullshit excuse as to why they don't want to go out with you when they've reached their fill with your "weakness", all the while making out like a fat rat. I'll recall a experiment involving a girl I once dated who told me ad nauseum from the first date on about how she feared getting involved with men who were involved in the "down low" lifestyle, HIV/AIDS, and how she didn't like being touched or having men try to kiss her after 2nd-3rd date or so, but she'd keep dating them, and in most cases, fucked them. Paradoxically, she'd tell me about just about every lay she ever had with these so-called "down-low" men. I probably know more about her twat than her gynocologist, and all her sexual stuff, and I never slept with her! The real clincher is that all of this came out on the first date and nearly all other I contact I had with her until the last time I saw/talked to her. Why she just volunteered this info when the conversation never steered in that direction, I'll never know. It was clear she either has issues, is just a textbook fucking loser, or not interested (very possibly all 3), so I took this as an opportunity to learn more about the illogical logic of women and to have great jokes and stories to tell friends to boot. Basically, the stance women take for "unworthy men" is "You can pay, but you'll never lay". I date now & again, but I don't order for my date, pay for every single detail, or etc. all the time. In the feminine mind it's projected as "needy", but I never cease to be amazed to hear women complain when it's not done by a man. Chances are they'd give you infinite other reasons why they wouldn't be interested in him sexually or otherwise, but like I said before in 1 of my other posts, it's always fun to see and hear a woman try to ice skate uphill by trying to rationalize irrationality. I personally make it a policy not to do the gentlemanly thing when I see a female acting like manners, kindness, chivalry, and the like is owed to them, even if you're Angelina Jolie or some chick you'd see at the mall, it's not flying here. It simply doesn't pay for a man to be overly nice to a woman. A low investment approach (especially financially) is best when it comes to dating a woman, especially if things don't work out, which is the case most of the time. Nothing/Little lost, nothing gained is the way to go. In closing, I'd like to invite any ladies to weigh in on weirdo-sex girl. I can't help but be still be little curious, what the hell was up with weirdo sex girl? Is such horseshit necessary rather than just saying you're not interested?

248. Winston left...

<<Erik - that's it. Your lover never should be your life. They should add to it. You should love yourself - do things for yourself, and not because it's selfish. Friends, your job, physical fitness, family, hobbies should all be equally important. I've found by once realizing the things necessary to have a great relationship - there is no longer neediness/clingy. Guys just don't know this. I always thought that's what woman want. Learn to say NO. Stand your ground.

Bob >>

W: How can you do that though, when our genes and mother nature programmed us to feel that we "need" love and sex, in order to propagate the species? You can't turn off needs like a light switch.

By the way, do the guy who keeps quoting DeAngelo here, his methods and CF BS almost never works, unless she is already attracted to you. I don't even think DeAngelo's tactics are to be taken serious, as his books and newsletters have a "for entertainment only" disclaimer at the bottom. None of it is serious advice, just fun. And when I field tested his lines, they didn't work.

249. Dave left...

Now I think we need a Nice Girl Syndrome list to match the Nice Guy Syndrome dialog

250. Dave left...

>>You can't turn off needs like a light switch.<< neediness is the most repulsive behavior to both sexes. Need is one thing but a demonstration of neediness is a real killer.

Some people don't understand that they are coming across as needy. They must stop that behavior and this will make them much more appealing to the opposite sex.

That's one good thing that David D teaches. But I must agree that we all have to be very careful of what dating gurus teach.

251. James left...

Just wait till these women get old....Man I can't wait for this event.

252. James left...

Just wait till these women get old....Man I can't wait for this event.

253. Ali left...

" Need is one thing but a demonstration of neediness is a real killer."

Kind of like damsels in distress, always needing help, huh? Some of us run to their rescue then resent their neediness later because they never strive to be self sufficient or independent, always they want to be dependent on you. And a constant dependent is a constant drain.

• Honestly I think from time to time we all are needy for something or another but the point is, that should not be a longstanding condition. If you need temporary help, then use that opportunity to become more independent and non-needy in the future...if not you will just be a leech off somebody, and they will definitely not like you for that.

254. MGP Bird Nimbostatus left...

Life to me is the beauty of Aesthetics. I found that beauty in girls from the 1st grade at elementary school. I found that beauty looking at locust, lizards, flowers and birds. I found this beauty in the subtleness of quiet and serene things in Nature. I found this beauty in the sculpture of our good fitness and health.

But I see a world lusting after Power. I find it hard to obtain my Indepentance with an overwhelming population against beauty. Beauty is seeing Cloudy weather for me and that makes me different. The power people want has wounded my esteem. Not finding it in the unique and unconventional interest I have.

• Seeing this beauty in a women, is the idea of being nice. Of course. I like to find intimacy shared mutually and empathictically.

• My need wasn't to be taken care of, but to experience something I think could offer me nurturing of my own incentives for being indepentant and confident. Hard to find that confidence, without knowing any experiences with find intimacy with our sensual beauty. Sight, Sound, Taste, Smell and all the Feelings about it. Life to me is experencing the beauty of the senses with another.

• While people have been ingrained and conditioned to find the Power of consumerism and life's soap opera's of drama. My Introverted temperament is my function to be found from our biological sculpture of the outside and finding it agreeing with the inside, being both intergrading together. Not seperated and conforming to popular lifestyles.

• I wish I could had been able to make myself better understood for being Nice, when I get stereotyped as ... "Wanting to find someone else to take care of me." Was't really why I had all the 'Nice Guy' traits as descibed here.

• I'm 50 years old, never had the intimacy, or got a women friendship going, still living with celibancy and have found this mistaken course all through my life. The world does piss me off!

255. Ali left...

Yeah man it sucks to get lumped together with the needy and insecure guys. But as long as you have your shit together they can't really knock you (within reason).

256. John left...

Well i'll say this I do need a beautiful girl in my life. To say I don't would be foolish, god made me that way.

257. Dave left...

The Achilles heal of modern society is supposedly:

1. We can’t tolerate criticism 2. We are terrified of appearing weak and needy

258. alexandra left...

<<Well i'll say this I do need a beautiful girl in my life. To say I don't would be foolish, god made me that way.>>

my guess is you don't really NEED a beautiful woman. you want one, and hey, that's fine. everyone is entitled to their own preferences. besides, what's your definition of beauty?

259. Dave left...

>>everyone is entitled to their own preferences.<< individuals often fall in love with someone that does not meet the criteria of their preferences. Funny.

260. Why laidies Why left...

If women realized how much control they have over the dating game they wouldn't have so much problems.. UP wait they do. They know exactly what they have, they just don't know what to do with it. They truly don't want a good man. They say that nice guys are not good in bed. Please how hard is it to be good in bed, any jack ass can pound a girl please be serious

261. Doormat left...

I read all these comments and I agree with this sentiment most. I say why after the quote.

"They are man-eaters, and have no mercy on their pray. The Law protects these women, and children shield them, they give these women the mother profile, you know everybody but woman and children. Go to war."

That's the fact of the issue. The law protects women that treat people badly and these women seem to only like the jerks. They can leave jerks with the bill and have no regrets. Women that don't share responsibility will always gripe about any guy they find, then run to the law when the serious parts crop up. The unlucky husband will soon see his divorce papers and have to pay her to mistreat other men while she spends the child support on drugs and booze.

The only 'nice guy' they'll end up with is the Policemen that believe her never-ending stories from her drugged out mind. One will eventually come along that has the detail of protecting her crazy act in some 'Safe House' and she will lock onto him. Pity the fool because this at the root of all the problems with our legal system today.

Because then we have another crooked cop on the streets taking drugs from kids and letting them go, to feed his wifes habit. If he succeeds in sending her to drug rehab she may dry out, but the damaged mind is still free to wreak damage.

In summation, who cares what these obsessive-compulsive women demand from men ? They'll either end up with power hungry slobs or become lesbians. This is because in their mind all guys that do not act as they resume we should are"Gay" - read it above in the first few posts. The very thought that by being a gentleman we could/must be "Gay" is so stupid that it really is illegal and should not be tolerated. You don't have to kiss her @$$, but you can and should be nice before the REAL women take you off their list.

Just play the field and look for what you want and can get along with easily. No more dumb games about how we "men don't act right". Give up on these women that want to change all men forever.

For information on more of the damning foolishness we are supposed to consider go to : Equal Justice Foundation http://www.ejfi.org/

It is getting very dangerous to be a male in America.

"The good men may do separately is small compared with what they may do collectively."

• Benjamin Franklin

262. Ali left...

"The law protects women that treat people badly and these women seem to only like the jerks. They can leave jerks with the bill and have no regrets."

I always thought those kinds of women just want an excuse to be bad. It seems they can do that with a jerk because well...he's bad too, he treats her like shit so she feels justified in treating him like shit too. But with a good guy, she has trouble finding an acceptable excuse or "justification" for bad behavior, hence all the blowing of things out of proportion, and all the catch 22 Area 51 female testing gone wrong. And the "you're too good for me" remarks. In reality, nobody's "too good". But by acting badly, she comes out looking like a real witch if she's with a drama free, non-jerk who treats her well. And I take it they really hate being the bad one. I think they want to smell like roses compared to the man they are with.

263. Doormat left...

Right Ali. Every guy will ask, make sly remarks, or just fiddle his way into a ladies pants if he wants some. What exactly is a "Bad Guy" in their opinion? The description isn't even there. Apparently it's really Married and Taken men should fool around and get more. But they don't want to coach men to outright leave THEM, just other guys.

Somebody {possibly not women} likes to make these stories up and have them printed in magazines like Seventeen, cosmo, etc. to feel vindicated. Some ladies act stupid and some really are stupid. Facts are that more men are incarcerated for actions with women today than ever before. That is totally connected to increased prosecution efforts in Domestic Violenece and DUI laws. I've met a few and have been there too, most of these men are "Nice Guys". So evidently it works to their advantage to coach us on behavior on being "Bad".

Having done a lot of time already, I wonder what these people/women are really saying? "All men should be in jail" or "Just give us the things we want for nothing" or even "Every man that isn't independantly wealthy and extremely stupid should be in jail." Most likely it's "We don't know what we want or how to do it, so listen to us rant"

---

On December 31, 2004 --

• -- 2,135,901 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails -- an increase of 2.6% from yearend 2003, less than the average annual growth of 3.4% since yearend 1995.

• -- there were an estimated 486 prison inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents -- up from 411 at yearend 1995.

• -- the number of women under the jurisdiction of State or Federal prison authorities increased 4.0% from yearend 2003, reaching 104,848 and the number of men rose 1.8%, totaling 1,391,781.

At yearend 2004 there were 3,218 black male sentenced prison inmates per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,220 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic males and 463 white male inmates per 100,000 white males.

DOJ Stats http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

---

While some lady is playing these games of telling us and everyone else that some guy just isn't right for her, she's still going out with him because he still is footing the bill. Meanwhile, if she isn't putting out he's most likely doing another 1,2,3 or even 4 more women and getting sex. When she finds out, she will overload and lash out at the poor fellow. Suddenly he's fixated on her and needs 'help'.

Point is more likely, a lot of women need to be affectionate and mature before they mess with men. And having one or more children doesn't make them mature, just legal property of the State Legal System. I know I can find hundreds of unwed mothers but very very few Fathers getting child support from women. And these women that are going for any guy that appears to be 'bad' are also responsible for the extreme level of 'Crack Babies' and high level of Alchoholism in America. All the while living off Welfare, Medicare, and any source of Free money they can find.

Who costs us more ? Women raising children with no Father or Men living in Prison and Jails because they just weren't "Bad" enough for them?

264. brandy 23-36. left...

i am the original nice guy, and yes i do finish last on some occasions, its called life. i believe that a man doenst have to own the remote control, checking account, or the emotions of his gf/wife. instead he has to own his feelings and if those feelings dont include courtesy, respect and honesty then he isnt in a relationship, hes in a battle.

i say bs to your comments about nice guys being wimps, i will buy u flowers and bask in your radiant presence, but only so long as the admiration goes both ways, this is called courtship and it SHOULD NEVER end as soon as your officailly bf/gf or man/wife.

i have worn my heart openly and had it torn bruised and trampled, yet i have also had my heart caressed and gently treated. bottom line, u want a bad boy then u expect the drugs and abuse u wnat a good boy then u might be looking for respect and trust..

hmm... abuse or trust... ill take the trust!!

265. James left...

1.) I'm Back. The public eye will not see what women are doing, I watched Oprah, and (yes I did but it was good) there was a show on wives who think it's ok to cheat on their hubbies. They claim that it's not their fault. They say it's their husband’s fault for not given them enough attention. They claim that the husband didn't pay enough attention to them and because of this he couldn't understand the signals she was given..........LADIES THAT SIGNAL BULLSHIT SHOULD NOT GO INTO YOUR MARRIAGE, THAT IS NOT YOU BOYFRIEND THAT IS YOU BEST FRIEND YOUR LOVER, YOU PARTNER, YOUR SOLEMATE, THE PERSON THAT WILL STICK BY YOU EVEN WHEN YOU WRONG. MEN DON'T TURN THIER BACKS ON WOMEN THEY LOVE WE DON'T WORK THAT WAY AT ALL ............mother fucker. One women claims that This guy told her things that made her feel better about her self, he made her feel alive, so that was her reason for cheating and leaving her husband. So she was she feeling alive and then dead.... something you should talk to your husband about. What I think is she couldn't let go of her bad side, her lust for being a nasty bitch. Her perfect husband made it hard as ALI said for her to be nasty. This guy was it for her. With him she can act out all her nasty little thoughts. Nice guys don't finish last...........WE GET THE LAST STRAW OF THE DEAL, WE ARE THE ONES WHO GET THE EXPLOSION AFTER ALL THE JERKS, NOT THE HAPPY ENDING ..........right? Oprah didn't like the crap she was hearing guys, she just could park her mind in the lot of all the Bull Shit in her audience. It was too much. LoL ONe girl opens up to Oprah saying how she felt like she was closed off from the world, that her husband didn't care, and didn't show her enough love...........The she said but it was all bullshit...While she spoke women were nodding their heads in agreement. 2.) I am not going to be in court getting my ass fucked by these chicks they are animals and need nothing good to come to them if they behave this way. No men don't cheat, the ones who cheat are the bad boys, and they do it because being a one women man is seen as wussy and they have to be bad to their women or loose them...........In reality. You can't have a good women that you really care about, because you will fall for them, and this will bring out the wus in you, and then its by by girlfriend. The Irony in this. The women can only find love in Bad boys so the only kind of men they will end up with are guys who don't like them, and will never like them, cause men don't change. So that's why relationships go bad for the most part, it's always two people who don't really like each other in the first place..........

266. Chasen left...

James, those are the reasons I'll nefer get married. Point blank. I think when most females take on the wife role she expects her husband to go above and beyond the call of being a husband and read her mind and know her feelings. One case, a friend of mine is married to this girl. They got married at 19 so you know it not going to last. While he goes to work the grave yard shift she calls me and talks to me. I tell her to talk to him about her concerns and stop bothering me all the time about it. Her comment, "I don't need to tell him. He should already know what's wrong". Females of the world, men are not mind readers and we don't read signals. Tell us straight up what is wrong so we can fix it if we can. Now she wants to leave him and be with me and I turn her down every time but it keeps getting worse. Now I don't even know if I should tell him.

267. Chasen left...

James, those are the reasons I'll nefer get married. Point blank. I think when most females take on the wife role she expects her husband to go above and beyond the call of being a husband and read her mind and know her feelings. One case, a friend of mine is married to this girl. They got married at 19 so you know it not going to last. While he goes to work the grave yard shift she calls me and talks to me. I tell her to talk to him about her concerns and stop bothering me all the time about it. Her comment, "I don't need to tell him. He should already know what's wrong". Females of the world, men are not mind readers and we don't read signals. Tell us straight up what is wrong so we can fix it if we can. Now she wants to leave him and be with me and I turn her down every time but it keeps getting worse. Now I don't even know if I should tell him.

268. Broke left...

Well first of all you should have been telling your freind all along, I mean you know what she is lookiing for, so coach him, and give him a stick to lean on, you should how painful it is to loose a good women. Use her bond with you to better her bond with him.

269. Dave left...

Men: Stop Using Insecure, Approval-Seeking, Low-Status Posture, Gestures, Voice Tone, And Body Language

270. DJ left...

I wonder what other men think of "nice" guys? I bet these are they guys who always getting bullied by other guys, passed over for promotions, and set up on blind dates by their friends who feel sorry for them.

271. Whatever left...

But it's perfectly ok to take advantage of their affections and spend their money anyway. Oooookay.

272. Dave left...

DJ DJ Comment I wonder what other men think of "nice" guys? I bet these are they guys who always getting bullied by other guys, passed over for promotions, and set up on blind dates by their friends who feel sorry for them.

What do you feel nice sweet guys should do to improve their lot in life?

273. DJ left...

For one, not go around telling people they are nice sweet guys. A guy should let their actions speak for themselves. And don't be defensive about your niceness. That is a dead givaway that maybe you aren't as nice as you want people to believe.

274. DJ left...

And don't think your social life is going to revolve around how nice you are. If you are saying stuff like "I am nice, why am I not getting dates" you may want to reevaluate how honest you are being with yourself about why you are so "nice".

275. Dave left...

DJ: Do you think the majority of nice guys are fakes and not just shy? Have run into a lot of fakes in your experience?

276. DJ left...

Shy isn't a problem The problem is someone who feels they have to tell you "I am a nice guy". That's almost like Nixon's "I am not a crook".

277. Visitor left...

Well I do suffer from nice guy syndrome, and it's not because I'm not really nice, and it's not because I'm out to get something. It's because I have had major problems in the past that have affected my self esteem and confidence. I AM needy unfortunately, and DO seek approval a lot in order to bolster my fragile ego. I probably am going to be annoying in the beginning of relationships, before I really trust my partner.

I'm not asking for sympathy by any means, we all have our problems, but to suggest that people like me are not worth bothering with, that we are somehow worse than cheaters, wife beaters and scum like that (because at least they are interesting) is a bit shitty. As I said, we all have our problems, our imperfections, does my insecurities make me a lesser being somehow?

The callous way both women and men dismiss those who have self-eseem issues, as wimpy, wussy or inadequate, is unsurprisingly not going to help us get our self esteem back. Ok ladies - needy, whiny men don't turn you on. Of course they don't. We will never be good relationship material until we sort our own problems out. But we are not the wimps, wussies and losers you call us on these blogs, we are people with emotional difficulties who don't need attacking by ever so perfect confident people.

Until I manage to sort myself out, I am happy to be a friend to my female acquaintances. I am not some kind of backup for them if their 'real man' leaves, I am just a friend - the opposite sex is not just for fucking or marrying.

278. Ali left...

"The callous way both women and men dismiss those who have self-eseem issues, as wimpy, wussy or inadequate, is unsurprisingly not going to help us get our self esteem back."

Good point. Other people will tend to be very insensitive if they themselves have not experienced this so you can't really expect too much understanding from them. However I am sure that every person has at some point in their life, been insecure or has had low confidence in themselves or low self esteem. And maybe it's this part about themselves that they loathe and reject, and when they see it in others they resent it and are repulsed by it. Is it a weakness? Yes. But is it a *moral* weakness? No. So what's the big deal?

I've always noticed that the people who truly care about you, like your *real* friends and family and significant others who really love you, etc....won't dismiss you because of *reversible* issues like these. In fact they will want you to be stronger and will truly encourage you rather than patronize or ridicule you. And they won't throw you out to the wolves either.

Hang in there, and don't let anyone make you feel like you are worth any less. In fact your worth is no less than anyone else's.

279. Sean left...

All I can say is the individual who started this post makes me sick! She obviously doesn't know what a good man is when it's right in front of her eyes. It's people like her that cause others to give up in the dating game. I gotta go go with james and dave, women like that don't desire what they don't appreciate.

As far as the comment of not being to complain about the nice guy to your friends...when is complaining and drama really neccessary? This doesn't apply to all women but "I am women hear me roar is really I am woman hear me bitch" applies to the women who posted the blog and many others I have known. I'd love to see these people who comment on others being weak and clingy, so on and so forth get rejected repetitively and see if they are any different. Confidence grows by success, the more you fail the more you question things and after a while...desperation can kick in. Feeling desired is a great self esteem builder and feeling unwanted does that exact opposite.

Decisions impact our lives, what we do now effects our lives later on. You reap what you sow, so I don't want to hear about any women or men for that matter who willingly passed up a good guy or girl to be with a scumbag or a skank, complain about how they got burned. You swim in pirahna invested water you will be bitten, it's not a matter of if but when!

280. Ali left...

Good points Sean.

281. twilightfun left...

Some people flock to these type threads just wanting somebody to tell them all that they have to do in life – because needed is someone to boss them round is all. Since they find a lot of men that respect the law instead, they begin to get upset and feel they have to say guys with class are ball-less, but it’s no nice guy’s fault these types want to be smacked around (basically set on he doesn’t put up with her fickle mood and mind changes – messing up the program) in order to feel loved. Hell, it’s nice enough a nice guy sits back and even bothers to listen to someone bi*ch about his being nice. At least he gives her a chance to talk in doing so, or he at least acts like he does care about the foolishness. No problem anyway though – far too many others gals in the world to waste time on worrying bout some boring kid that cannot bring enough interest to life, therefore sits back and hates nice people for . . . just being nice. You know, some just don’t know how to appreciate a good thing is all, at least till it’s gone. By that time though, far too many of em have been run through the mill, leaving many a nice guy finally realizing he wasn’t so crazy after all to see that it’s a whole buncha hype that goes into a lot of this stuff.

Bottom line, fellas – continue to make friends. It’s all betta that way. And continue to be the gentleman, sayin “If one don’t click, there’ll be another to pick.” Dudes, over time you learn (most do) it just ain’t worth it to drive yourself so crazy out your mind trying to please someone who doesn’t even have a clear picture of what she wants in the first place. So save it for more than one. It’s like networking to better things . Betta yet, what I would tell guys in general is think of things on the negative as a positive flow, meaning if one turns you down you got excuse to go on to the next and play the game there. Hell, it’s not like the previous one’s got any right to complain. Let her do her thing and let you do your thing. It’s all good.

Leave things open for her, and she can one day realize other “grown-up” females like to flock to the cool ways of the “Playa-Nice.” (A guy with taste that excels at being an appealing gentleman to ladies . . .on the buddy tip or in the bedroom)

• That’s what we are.

282. D J left...

Would you all date women who were as cynical as you are?

283. MGP Bird Nimbostatus left...

From this Piece of Quote ... (I like to take it in smaller portions, because it's so Extreme in two different Directions to me.)

"Nice sweet guys think women are a 'special species' from another planet.

Nice sweet guys suffocate their girlfriends, expecting them to be their lovers, mother, sister, princess, china doll, and the Goddess who brings up the sun in their mornings. They also expect their girlfriends to be their best buddy, because 'real' guys won't have anything to do with the geeks!"

I like Honesty and being Truthful about things. If Women have a problem with that. Then they have a Problem. Being Nice in this Since and not appreciated has got problems. Now the Honesty about me ... I Like Lusting after Horny Women. Now it seems they have a problem with this? Seems to me that they can't get into their own Horniness themselves? Is being Horny considered Bad? It's strange how we catagorize things. But in the right way, it maybe Nice! Not Bad.

We are a combination of different Temperaments. But what most women seem to want is "Extravert" and not liking "Introverts", but this goes to how Diversity life is.

• Women do want to feel Special and wants lots of Attention. This is some kind of Cop Out about Nice Guys, because they have been Condition by Culture not to like Nice Guys giving them Attention and wanting Attention, so the Media can have these Women. Notice how they Hunger for Attention when it comes to Entertainment, being an Actress and going for Shopping. Looking for things to make them what?

Get Attention! Right?!

284. Ali left...

They may only want attention from the kind of guys that they happen to like. Anything else may be repulsive to them. If they hate nice guys for whatever reason it doesn't matter what the guy does or says she will still resent him for trying.

Why should you associate with someone who can't seem to respect you as a human being, when your only cited offense is having the audacity to not be attractive to them?

So if you're a nice guy, why not take all these bad guy chasers off your radar? You're wasting precious time and energy and sentiments on women who, although they might conveniently soak up your nice gestures, won't ever give a damn about you as a person. Why not look for women who are more up your alley? Women who can appreciate and reciprocate.

285. D J left...

Or how about being a caring human being instead of a "nice guy"? Do you go around telling other men that you are a "nice guy" or is it just the women who are supposed to know this? How about being a "smart guy" or a "perceptive guy" or an "interesting guy"? Why do men pin all their hopes on dating (and getting sex, be real about that) on being "nice"? Not even genuine nice, surface nice with resentment just below the surface.

286. D J left...

"Would you all date women who were as cynical as you are?"

287. Ali left...

"Or how about being a caring human being instead of a "nice guy"? Do you go around telling other men that you are a "nice guy" or is it just the women who are supposed to know this? How about being a "smart guy" or a "perceptive guy" or an "interesting guy"? Why do men pin all their hopes on dating (and getting sex, be real about that) on being "nice"? Not even genuine nice, surface nice with resentment just below the surface."

Ok you obviously have a huge problem with nice guys. And even as far as the genuine ones go, you will automatically toss up an assumption of WHY they are nice.

And you are also assuming that the only reason guys are nice is to get sex from a woman. Go buy a clue, ok? It's painfully obvious by now that plenty of women don't even respect the nice guy so if he was just trying to get some it wouldn't it be easier for him to simply show the woman what he thinks she wants to see? We all know by now that most women in the dating arena tend to run from nice like a case of herpes.

And for that matter who are you to tell people when, where, how, and why they can be nice? And to whom? I guess you must be part of the camp that believes that people should be nice to the very assholes and bitches who are pissing on them and calling it rain as well? As usual, you have things warped and twisted.

Well, it's a fact that if you're nice to THOSE people they will tend to pee, shit and walk all over you, plus or minus benefiting from the fact that you were nice to them.

I don't see you being nice to me at all or even civil so where do you get off expecting anything more from me?

And for your information, you do come off as a hypocrite yet again trying to call anyone else out for being resentful of people who are disrespectful of them, while you yourself have great resentment towards nice guys, it's written all over this blog just as plainly as anyone else's resentment. You must have been done dirty by a fake "nice guy" or something. Well that's awful and everything but shouldn't you take your own advice and stop projecting what one person did onto a whole group of people?

The people who disrespect a guy simply because he doesn't seem to have whatever it takes to get some woman or another's juices flowing have some kind of issue, kind of like the popular kids in high school who used to pick on the quiet, shy kids or the smart ones simply because they were different. SO WHAT if he isn't your type? Does that mean you're justified in dissrespecting him, because you don't find him sexy or attractive? Really, what the hell did he (or his kind in general) do to you? Given the way out and detrimental shit that bad guys put women thru time and time again I'm suprised this animosity and resentment isn't aimed at THEM. But it's not, it's redirected and misplaced and catapulted at your usual friendly neighborhood patsys and scapegoats, isn't it? And you just keep on loving the kind of men who keep hurting you, don't you? Damn, that's some kind of mojo mindfuck these guys put on some of you. Get a grip.

Again, if you don't like nice guys then fine, nobody's asking you to! Go about your business and chill out with that unnecessary and unwarranted hatred, or else expect some resentment in return, because everybody has their limit.

You and some people here obviously still don't get it. There is a big difference between being nice out of common courtesy or the way you were raised i.e. to treat people w/ at least baseline respect versus being nice in order to seek approval or get something in return.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, why not look up the definition of concepts like courtesy, manners, and ettiquite. While you're at it, recall how many women CLAIM they want chivalry on the one hand and on the other they have all this hatred and resentment of the very guys who show this to them. To say you want Prince Charming but yet secretly hate him and want instead the knaves he was trying to save you from is nothing less than utter madness! This is why it seems to a lot of us that women would rather be with someone who won't treat them well, because you seem to strongly dislike those who try to do right by you.

So think about that the next time you go on a nice guy bashing spree. Or not.

And it's no wonder why when these same ass backwards women who proclaimed the same theme of this thread come looking for a nice guy later (pretending to not have the same hangups anymore), the guys are going to naturally be very skeptical, cynical and even resentful of them. Given the disrespect or indifference they've been put thru, CAN YOU REALLY BLAME THEM THOUGH? We weren't born yesterday, and yall aren't that slick. We know how much you loath us deep down, and so there will be no fooling those of us who have a clue once we've been burned by your kind once or twice. It gets easier and easier to spot the bitch in a woman, if she happens to be so inclined, and this can be easily seen in how she treats THOSE WHO ARE NO THREAT TO HER WHATSOEVER. If that happens to be with malice and cruelty then you have your proof right there. You love bad guys so much then go make your house and raise your children with THEM, because THAT'S what you deserve, since you have so much in common. Be adult enough to handle and deal with what you say you want. If we're obviously not what you want, then leave us alone, stop pretending to like us when you want something from us, stop trying to solicit that which you do not care to appreciate or reciprocate, and take your foolishness elsewhere. We have much better and productive things to do, such as spend our time with women who liked us for who we are from the start.

288. The General left...

I say we blow them all to smithereens and let God sort 'em out. It's "SEMPer Fi" NOT "SIMPer Fi"....

HU-RAAAAAAH!

289. D J left...

"So think about that the next time you go on a nice guy bashing spree."

Or maybe the women on the blog should take a cue from the men on the blog and bash an entire gender indiscriminantly.

290. TimidPassiveMale left...

I heard about an article recently that talks about how young women are afraid to fall in love because they are either afraid of being hurt, or afraid a relationship will make them less independent.

Well I don't have to worry ever about a woman not falling in love with me because she's "afraid to". All my life when I've told females I had feelings for them, all I get is "I only like you as a friend" or "you're not my type" or "I'm not ready for a relationship", oh but they're ready for a relationship with a different guy, just not me!

Women apparently don't want a guy like me, who wouldn't care where he was or what he was doing, as long as he was with her. And who asks her opinion on all kinds of things, politics, relationships, religion, etc. And whatever she says sounds good to me. Apparently women don't want a guy who thinks that much of her.

There's "seduction" gurus who teach losers how to get women to be hot for them. Basically it goes like this: impress her, then pull back, impress her then pull back. Make her work for his affection, not the other way around.

Well that's too much effort, to try to impress a woman. I play PS2 and I go on the internet. That's it, end of list. I like being safe. I like not trying new things because the less you experience, the less can happen to you.

I'm NOT exciting, I'm NOT fun, I'm NOT in good shape, I'm NOT financially stable, I'm NOT confident nor independent, and I'm NOT interested in having a family because I'm too lazy and self-absorbed to want to spend my time and money raising kids. But I am safe, polite, and would never hit her or cheat on her. That should be enough.

I'm also sick of people thinking that if a guy is past a certain age, never had a relationship and a virgin, that there's something wrong with him. Have they never stopped to think that maybe he's just a perfectly normal guy with low self-esteem and self-confidence? A perfectly normal guy who just doesn't have much interest in other people, except wanting a girlfriend because he has needs? I mean there are countless guys out there just like me, so it's perfectly normal.

I need a hot looking g/f to hang all over me in public, make me feel important, make me feel attractive, etc. And I should be able to have that just as I am without changing ANYTHING about myself.

And if I'm alone for the rest of my life, then it will be through no fault of my own. I'll simply be an innocent victim of women having such a narrow idea about what makes men "hot" or "sexy".

291. MGP Bird Nimbostatus left...

TIMIDPASSIVEMALE! From reading your Comment. Are we clones? Your Comment would be exactly me also. With a bit of being Different with some other popular cultural interest. I haven't been in a climate that has Clouds, Rain and Fog more than 60 Days out of a year and that is driving me crasy. I prefer to see at least having my fair share of Clouds, Rain and Fog out of the year like 190 Days at least. Perfect amount of Days would be 300 out of the year. And I hate temperatures above 70 Degrees. So my priority is trying to move to Northern Oregon or Washington right now. The climate that works against me, has never made me be me so much as I like of me. And I'm noticing this conflict with me in meeting women.

292. Charley left...

It sounds like the original poster is saying that bad guys don't respect women, and good learns need to learn to respect them less. Is that an accurate interpretation of what I read? It seems troublingly accurate. I've been learning to respect them a lot less.

Does that mean that by age 40 no guys respect women anymore? The bad guys never did, and the nice guys have finally wised up? Actually some guys never wise up, and some women never do either.

I actually think there is a middle ground for both men and women. I've come to realize that women have to be older than 25 or likely 30 to have had the possibility of having finally grown a brain and have some sense about me. For men, I think they have to be age 30, or possibly 35 to have grown a brain about women. i.e. - by then the bad guys are calming down a bit and maybe learning to be a bit more considerate. I think so. I have some former bad boy friend who are mellow enough and considerate enough to be decent guys in their 30s. Also, the nice guys have found their spine and learned NOT to be overly nice by age 30 or 35.

At least that's true for people who have the capacity to wise up and find some middle ground. Some people are truly hopeless and never improve. However, I think most people do improve with age.

From now on, I'm sticking to women age 25+, and ideally age 30+ on the theory that they aren't the stupid hoes that most younger women seem to be. I've also heard of women doing a similar thing and sticking to guys who are age 30+. By age 30, and especially 35, life has weeded people out by natural selection so that it's much more obvious who they are and what their potential is. That makes it easier to know who is who. Also, many people improve with age, and those who don't will be well on the road to extinction by age 30 to 35.

i.e. - if you want some more maturity from others, then deal with more mature people, IMO.

Now let's see if that really works for me. I'm going to try dating again, but from now on, she/they must be age 30+. Also, I'm not ever going to try dating only one woman again like I used to. I'll date as many as are available to me, and no one will be overly important to me anymore. Also, even though my nature is to be caring and try to improve the life of any woman I'm with and help her solve or improve as many of her problems as possible, I'm going to fight the urge to care about them to much. They can help themselves and deal with their problems without my help, unless we're married. If I get married, well, I'll probably revert to being a nice guy again. I hope that won't get me divorced. ;-)

Well, anyway, that's putting the cart ahead of the horse. I'll just try dating again, but no more women in their 20s. Not even if they do flirt with me sometimes. I'm going to consider them to be poison oak in bloom. It's beautiful, but if you touch it, or even get near it, you'll get very sick and have a rash from hell.

293. SRM left...

Nice guy is not the same as pussy. I actually know quite a lot of pussies who display more signs of a bad boy than of a nice guy. And there are many nice quys that are not boring and are pretty sexy and attractive.

294. D J left...

"Nice guy is not the same as pussy. I actually know quite a lot of pussies who display more signs of a bad boy than of a nice guy. And there are many nice quys that are not boring and are pretty sexy and attractive"

Very well put SRM. The "nice" guys have more in common with the bad boys than the genuine nice guys. Of course don't try telling them that because unlike the bad boy, the "nice" guy is in denial about how not nice he actually is.

295. twiightfun left...

“The “nice” guys have more in common with the bad boys…” What – that they are both named in that statement? Please! Who gives you right to say a nice guy isn’t actually nice, when everyone else but the crappy girl he tried to be nice to (‘cause he honestly liked her and wanted to be nice) knows he is too? And how can anyone suddenly read minds off what a really nice guy is trying to do – with some supposed plot to try to scheme to get a female, like a bad guy would? When exactly did all this mind reading begin? Was it when females started saying stuff like – “well, I need a guy who knows what a woman wants?” GTFOH – LoL!

296. D J left...

"“The “nice” guys have more in common with the bad boys…” What – that they are both named in that statement? Please!"

Did you even notice that "nice" was in quotes?

297. twilightfun left...

DJ, let’s “let the music play” to these words:

What I noticed is “nice” and “genuinely nice” were stated, and there’s a similarity between the two as words – the word NICE itself. Did you notice? See, ‘cause many a person is fake, not nice or “nice” for that matter, but to call em nice puts the shyt in the pot because of what I’ve already stated about the mind reading part I’ve mentioned. In other words, nice guys are often really nice, without necessarily meaning the term has to have “genuinely” tacked on to it. It’s just up to those who’d think they read minds (or want other to read theirs) to be able to get to know and appreciate many the nice guy they keep turning away – calling em “nice” to hide behind the crappy game being played – without just saying instead a creep is preferred (LoL). Most times, after all, nice guys are shunned and haunted by sayings like – “Oh, he’s not really…he’s just doing ALL THAT NICE STUFF to get some of you, girrrrrrlll.” B.S.!

298. D J left...

Someone once said it's better to be kind than nice. Don't know the difference? Then you probably aren't either one.

299. twilightfun left...

Well, I'm "kinda really nice," so you keep searching for your own identity in the meantime. -- -- hehe.

It just ain't that serious.

300. D J left...

Obviously it's just serious enough, isn't it?

301. charley left...

Has anyone notice that poll asking if women prefer good or bad men? Add up the percentages of who voted for each choice and you'll see that 101% of the people voted.

Does anyone else see a discrepency there?

302. charley left...

By the way, my earlier response was overly jaded. I recant it.

I think many women under 30, and especially most girls under 25 have stupid tastes in boys and men. However, adult women (30+) typically have much improved and improving taste in men and better judgement.

303. daved left...

Good article but I don't agree with it in many parts. I'd say there are 2 kind of "nice guys". The ones with the baby face and a perfect body which play golf. These are the guys this article is most about and should be rather called "mr. perfect" and yes, they suck!

Now there are the other ones which actually may be shy, insecure, feel undeserved and are mostly passive. I'm mostly of this kind. But you know what? I've got more life than most people although in a different manner and I've gone further than all those "normal people" living in their faked world. And I'm still desperately looking for the real, not so small-minded humans and that woman which stands by my side in the thunderstorms and screams out to the gods without fear of death.

May be this is a bit off topic but perhaps you get an idea what the real overlooked shy guys in the background are about. Beside, it's funny how some women are attracted by those wanna-be "bad boys" while they fear the real bad men ;).

304. Hot Alpha Female left...

Great article. There are many parts to which i agree and other parts which I want to add to. Firstly i think that nice guys are overlooked. Because in a sense they have so much to offer in a relationship ( and that’s what us chicks want right?!). We overlook them really easily because we don’t feel any attraction to them. N like the post said, this is mainly due to the fact that they give the control to US!

With that being said i think that girls are attracted to two types. One is the Alpha Male ( aka the bad boy) and the second one believe it or not is the PROVIDER type.

Girls, how many times have we seen a guy with a bad and for some reason thought that he was really hot!! its a biological thing ( well that’s what I want to believe). This is the reason why we date the bad boys when we are young and then marry the provider type. The guy that is reliable, that will stick around, take care of your kids and be there for you 24/7. That’s also why women who have been in a marriage for a little while will probably have an affair with an Alpha Male. Because she has TWO needs. That need for passion, intensity and excitement. Yet that need for stability, reliability and love.

Most of the time you cant get that from the same person. But i do think, that is these provider types learn how to ACT like an Alpha Male ... That they will be the perfect catch! The thing is ... if a guy has the knowledge to create attraction to heaps of women .. then why would he stick to just one?! LoL

Hot Alpha Female

"Dont Hate the player - Love the Game - Play to win!"

http://www.hotalphafemale. blogspot.com

305. sandra left...

i can agree with most of it but i have meet some nice guys who didnt act like that and have very good lives they wanted to share with some one. and some "bad boys" who wanted to do the same thing u said good guys do.

306. Hot Alpha Female left...

Sandra,

• I definately agree with you. There are some guys out there that know how to attract women and do eventually want to settle down. Its just that you have to get them at the right timing.

While its easy to generalise people into catergories - there are always exceptions to all the rules

Hot Alpha Female

http://www.hotalphafemale. blogspot.com

307. c left...

I feel that Carlos said it most eloquently. I have heard self-proclaimed nice guys complain that women always go for jerks. They almost always state it in exactly the same way. It's almost a formula. Let me see if I can remember all the ways it has been said to me or I have heard it said.

Why is it that women always go for the jerks instead of the nice guys? What's wrong with women that they choose jerks instead of guys like me who would be nice to them? There are so many jerks out there and very few nice guys like me. And maybe that's why women choose these guys because there are more of them. Women seem to go for jerks more than they go for nice guys. and even (this one is great in how laughable it is): We should have more programs and education to teach women how to choose nice guys.

Some people here are taking issue with the use of the term nice guy, that somehow we are ragging upon men who are who are thoughtful, kind men. We are not. We are using the term that nice guys use to describe themselves.

Some obversations: We are talking about men who seem to always define themselves in comparison to other men. These men don't come up to women and introduce themselves the way other men do.

That is part of the problem. They can't think about themselves without conjuring up other men who are bad. So this makes them feel better (though still unwanted). Essentially you have the fairytale world of the nice guy. In his fairy tale world he doesn't get the beautiful princess because she always chooses the dragon. This is how he states it. I am a nice guy, but that is not valued. Women choose bad guys, but that is not going to stop being a nice guy. But of course I can't find a woman because they always choose jerks.

Yet in his very unsuccessful world he is all alone while jerks and poor unfortunate women choose each other. Well hello. Can someone please play their violin for this poor fellow.

I recall a nice guy who interrupted a lovers' quarrel that I and my lover were having, years ago when I was in college. It wasn't ugly or mean or even loud, we were just having a disagreement. I am sure that in this "nice guy's" view of things I was being treated badly by a jerk. He came over trying to rescue me from a "jerk" and I sure did not appreciate it and told him to leave us alone and that we were doing just fine without his assistance. I was even angry, because he made me lose my train of though in our discussion. So he was unwanted and unneeded. I am almost certain he walked away thinking "there goes another woman with her jerk", when nothing could be further from the truth. Fact is lovers quarrel, but a "nice guy" is going to be aghast at that sort of thing. He's going to see it as some kind of cardinal sin against some poor hapless victim of a woman.

The other thing that nice guys can't handle is that women choose other men than them. It's as if they feel entitled to a particular woman. If she doesn't choose him, he thinks her judgment is bad and the man she chose is a jerk. I bet a lot of so called nice guys write off a great many unsuccessful attempts to capture the interest of a woman as "another jerk meets a woman and won out over nice guy me"

Here is my advice to nice guys:

1) stop seeing yourself as so nice. you probably aren't and you need to get over it. like everyone else you have your faults. why not own up to them instead of seeing everyone else as failing

2) stop seeing women as victims. many woman are actually choosing relationships that are healthy, though they may appear unhealthy to you through your own filtered perceptions. entertain for a moment that you may actually be wrong in your perceptions.

For example. Say you are at a bar and you are flirting with a woman or attempting to. Along comes some man and he gets her interest. She goes off with him--maybe outside to talk, maybe home with this fellow. But in your mind he has probably won out over you. Well, you'd be surprised to find out that jerks don't score as much as you'd like to think. In your fantasy the dragon has gotten the princess. But maybe the scenario played out differently out from under your watchful eye. Maybe the woman decided she didn't care for your competitor and after spending a few minutes with the man opted to go home alone. You just don't know do you? So stop assuming that just because a woman and man are in a flirtation with one another that the man got the girl.

See what is happening is that you have this kind of idea that it's really supposed to be so easy for you, like you are entitled to special consideration for being a nice guy. Like you are supposed to walk up to a woman and she's just going to fall in love with you as soon as you show her your eagle scout uniform. That she is supposed to see right through to your nice guy core and go wow, this man is so great. It isn't like this. Get over it. Because while men are on the prowl, women are also looking for some qualities such as endurance. And that a man can be persistent over time can speak a great deal about his ability to commit. Self-confidence counts a lot because woman are going to want at some level a man who will defend them and their children in a crisis. I'm not even all that traditional, but would I want a man who said to the police, "Well these three guys came after my girlfriend, and you know how it is, nice guys always finish last."

The other thing is that as a nice guy you have this idea that she is going to get deeply hurt by this jerk and she'll regret it and her life will unravel and she'll be miserable forever because she didn't choose you. In a way it's your secret weapon of self-righteousness.

However, you are stuck while jerk and "poor women" have spent some time together, had some fun, learned some things, grown up a bit or maybe not, stayed together or maybe not, but in any case they embraced the experience, while all you are doing is embracing a world view that doesn't serve you at all.

So my advice is to change your world view and stop seeing yourself on a scale where you are a 10 and your competitors are 1.

308. Benjamin Brown left...

Well that depends on what a nice guy is. What your describing is overly obsessive and overly nice guy or rather the extreme side of the spectrum. There is no reason for nice guys not to be assertive, and still not kick puppies or cheat. It doesn't always have to be black and white, or good or bad. Balance is the key to everything in this life, especially when it comes to relationships and the people we most likely want to date/mate/marry. Nice people are usually people who more often than not who humbled in life enough not to be assholes.

Of course the problem the majority of people rather not take responsibility for their lives, and would rather not use life as the learning platform it is. Instead they blame women, men, feminism, etc. Anyway, I don't know if I'm ever going to find that person I could truly call my soul-mate but I do know I'm even if that never happens it'll be perfectly acceptable as well. After all there is more to life than sex, and more in life to love then the idea of that person that completes yourself.

I know, I know, that all sounded rather corny, buts its as close to the truth as I got. ^. Anyway, I hope you all make use of your troubles for a better life.

309. Emily left...

Woman needs to be strong for a nice guy. Paradoxical truth lies in the fact that it is somehow much more difficult to deal with big amounts of niceness than rudeness. A woman needs to believe she deserves to be an object of niceness, and women often don't, due to the centuries of female repression in society.

310. Aryssa left...

I guess, what I see, is that this is a fair description of how many self described nice guys act. However, I've never seen self described nice guys as actually being nice so I have to disagree with this post based only on my experience with real nice men. Being kind and caring for someone else doesn't have to come at the expense of ones inner self - I have several wonderful guy friends, and a boyfriend, who all know and express this. This post seems to focus more on an immature understanding of what it means to be nice or caring. I greatly dislike badboys. I don't like parties, excitement, or macho men. But I also greatly dislike the men who are convinced they are 'nice guys' when in fact they are needy and their love is only for their own validation. That isn't love - its objectification. I hope most of the self-professed nice guys learn enough self respect and love of self to have that solid inner core of strength that is what is truly attractive. But honestly, don't give up kindness for excitement. If a man doesn't respect you as a person, thats just as immature as the opposite.

311. Ashley left...

Guys who have never had girls attention tend to hold it against all women and be assholes, not nice guys. Guys who are jerks to women are the ones who are insecure and secretly hate themselves. If a guy is nice, it usually means he respects women, it doesn't imply some huge weird stereotype you're describing. I always date nice guys, and theyve all been goodlooking. They havent dressed like the yuppies you described. They aren't desperate. They might be rather shy or quiet sometimes, but they've never been unintelligent. At least they aren't obnoxious and never act think their god's gift to women.

You're making us all look bad.

312. real_g21 left...

While I'm neither a "good guy" or "bad guy", I still had to comment on the obvious distain and hatred you seem to have for "nice guys."

It's crazy how so many women seem to confuse "nice guy" with "wussy pushover." lol @ thinking any guy who treats you well is a poor excuse for a man.

I can imagine the conversations you must have with those guys. "Look here, nice guy. Why are you on time? You're supposed to be an hour late so I'll be mad, then do something to make me FORGET why I was mad in the FIRST place. Don't you know ANYTHING?!? Ugh." lol, Crazy.

313. Ali left...

lol.

314. DJ left...

"It's crazy how so many women seem to confuse "nice guy" with "wussy pushover." lol @ thinking any guy who treats you well is a poor excuse for a man. "

Any guy who has to declare himself a nice guy is probably more of an ass hole than a wuss.

315. real_g21 left...

Which is why I didn't categorize myself either way. There's no need.