A woman can challege her man more 22

let me translate this into english :

keep your man stressed out with stupid tests until he has enough and divorces you.

This goes to the mind set of women thinking men are hunters. Women seem to think we like the chase. Well if I'm a cave man hunting a big dangerous mammoth and I happen on a pile of fresh pizza, well to hell with the mammoth I'm taking the pizza! Women are under the impression men like games and the chase because we hang around when she gives us the games. Well we hang around and put up with games because she's interacting with us. If a woman talks to a man then there is a chance of a relationship. So he hangs around for a long time. Women shouldn't per sue men the way she wants to be chased. Women get opportunities with men with out even trying. The average man does not unless he has been trained in how a woman works. Thus the traits of the "bad boy" attraction nature has made women want. So when a woman challenges a man, the only men that can deal with it are assholes and jerks because they don't care. They just want sex and move on. A woman plays games and challenges a man well he's going to do everything he can to have sex with her and then move on. Women who challenge all the men they see will only get the men that bring them misery. There is hope because a man can learn to show these traits. In a sense "trick" the women into thinking your a bad boy yet you still the nice guy only women find you attractive now. Women just want to know what kind of man they are dealing with. The only way for them to find out is with stupid games and tests.

Anna would you agree that if what you say is true then this should work both ways? That women should be challenged as well? In my experience, women don't often take too kindly to being challenged or tested, they want somebody who can accept them as they are rather than someone who challenges them to improve. Interesting topic you brought up.

Maybe I can shed some light on this because I'm one of those women who is non challenging...which is usually a problem, but isn't a problem when I encounter a good one.

Anna's speaking in averages. Like I've alluded to before, the average person is an idiot in many ways. People who are not idiots know a good one when they catch them, and don't need to play games and go in circles. They just need to know if they're compatible.

Anyone's true nature will come out in time. Though there are some hurdles one should be watchful that their partner jumps and doesn't cheat to walk around, and though some testing is reasonable, there's a point when it's just too much. That point is where you sacrifice your integrity or dignity, or ask someone else to sacrifice theirs.

Good people encourage their partners' integrity. They don't want to make each other suffer. Life brings enough crap.

I think people worry too much. I'm an emotional type of woman, and can get pretty torn up when things go wrong, but until they do, I'm not engaged in pre-emptive posturing. I give them the benefit of the doubt, and go as far as halfway on good faith. If they keep up then we can move to the next level. If they don't then I know it's over without any kind of games.

I think that when you're with someone who you feel complements you, you want to give them your best, rather than become complacent.

I think people who feel they are settling, won't feel challenged or inspired and it will show.

Well...there's settling, and then there's settling. To understand that no one person can fulfill each and every desire, kink, fetish, and flavor that anyone else would like, is a good thing. It's wrong to expect or demand that someone be everything you want. It isn't too unreasonable to hope however, that they'll be everything you need. In simple terms, it's a "minimum standard", but it's good to have.

My ideal mate of my fantasies wouldn't even be human. He'd be a sentient, genius, giant, dark purple, amphibious, mulititentacled being. My dating any mere human is settling, but it would be silly for me to consider someone's being human with only one tentacle that isn't even prehensile, a bad thing.

Everybody has their own multitentacled monster...a fantasy being who has everything that person considers desirable, wrapped in one skin. This person seldom exists in reality though. So people do need to learn to settle...for reality.

I think you guys have misunderstood the original poster's comments. She is referring to the healthy requirement in a relationship to prevent personal goal stagnation. By 'challenging' a partner, we are not 'testing' them, or making them 'run' after us, we are merely offering an alternative to the soppy agree-with-everything, accept all attitude. I don't want a woman who will wash my socks and cook my dinner and smile everytime I speak. I would much rather have a woman who will develop her own life and simultaneously, quietly challenge/encourage me to achieve my ambitions. Let me reiterate, neither I nor the original poster are talking about playing 'games' in a relationship... just gentle encouragement via one's own actions to motivate/challenge the partner to enjoy their life more. I would see a woman who follows this way of life as a real potential life-long partner and one who has her partner's best interests at heart. Of course most people wish to sit on their behind and not grow in any way other than around the waist... but for those who wish to make the most of their lives, talents and relationship, being challenging by their partner out of a healthy respect and love for them, is the only way to go.

What about washing your socks, cooking your dinner, and smiling when you speak would prevent her from having her own life?

Maybe she just considers you an important enough part of her life that taking care of you and not being petty/catty is a part of showing you that?

This is what I'm talking about when I say that humans are generally idiots. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. When it all comes down to the nitty gritty, none of this crap really matters to Joe Average. He's running on autopilot with no consciousness of what he really wants, which changes from one minute to the next, depending on trends and what's most convenient at the moment.

...and this is why I don't bother about Joe Average.

A great many of my potential relationships have ended because I wasn't enough of a challenge. Somehow, despite the businesses, the writing, the kinkiness, and a whole lot of other things that scream "freak with a life", my also having common sense and being deeply loving gave them the impression that I have no life.

Apparently, making time for someone, and understanding that they might not be able to call me every 12 hours is interpreted as my having nothing else to do...and being a sensitive and adventurous lover gets translated as being desperate...and enjoying cooking and having a clean bathroom, my GOD, you better check that cassoulet for bunny fur.

Joe Average feels like he's doing me a favor by dating me in the first place. He gets tired of my obsessively calling him once a month to see if he's alive. LOL!

Some of us are not addicted to drama, and don't think that someone being attentive is a bad thing. When the so-called experts are talking about challenge (to the masses), they are talking about playing games (to the exceptions). A decent man who is an attentive partner and wants an attentive partner, won't punish them for being attentive. He doesn't need a woman to curse at him to know she has a mind of her own.

Seriously, I never ever ever ever EVER called any of my partners out of their names, except as a form of sex play. No matter how angry I've ever been at any of them, from the most casual of bitches, to my husbands, I would never disrespect them...or tolerate disrespect from them, for that matter. I also don't get on their cases about the small stuff. It's just not worth it.

Guys who actually take the time to notice, understand that a woman who doesn't nag is not a doormat. She just doesn't like to repeat herself. She says things once, or enough times to make sure she's understood, and after that, the time for talking is done. It'll get done or someone's going to suffer the natural consequences of it not getting done.

...and a woman who cleans up after you is showing you that she cares...especially if it involves wiping up the friendly fire around the toilet. That's not the behavior of a timid, fragile flower.

Do people not know how to appreciate normal caring individuals anymore?

Ali, I think in general, people only appreciate it when they have it themselves.

There was a documentary I saw once about extremely obese people. One guy has a wife who stuck by him no matter what...even to the point of still desiring him sexually after he got to the point where he was immobile. She didn't love him for his looks, and understood the eating disorder was an illness, but the lesser of other possible evils...

Anyway, he lost a bunch of weight, with the help of Richard Simmons. His life changed, and in some ways it was for the better, and in some ways not. He wasn't really being himself, and started treating people badly and cheating on his wife who was with him through the fat and supported him in the weight loss.

In the end, he couldn't keep the weight off because he realized he'd lost it for the wrong reasons, and did not like the person he had become. This time he's going about things in a more holistic way. They never said what ultimately happened to him, but I got the distinct impression that he'd rather be a fat compassionate person than a skinny asswipe.

Before, he didn't appreciate his wife's compassion and loyalty, and thought something must be wrong with her for loving him so much. This is because at the time, he really didn't love himself.

When people don't love or value themselves, they can't really appreciate a partner who loves and values them.

We tend to seek partners who will echo what we tell ourselves. If we don't think we deserve someone who will be sweet to us, then we won't require that in a partner. If we do, then someone who isn't sweet will not be attractive to us.

So...if a woman doesn't believe she deserves someone who will call her often, bring her (reasonable) tokens like flowers and candy, and be romantic with her, and would die a bit inside if she left him, then she'll go for someone who behaves indifferently towards her.

A good bit of it also has to do with people's ideas of gender roles as well. A woman who grew up in a situation where most of the men around her were aloof and unromantic, will believe that this is how men are supposed to be. Same with men, if they grew up around women who were un-nurturing, or whose nurturing was tainted with domineering/controlling, then they'll think that's how women are supposed to be. So it's partly a confidence issue, and partly worldview, which is usually influenced both by their individual family and their culture.

"he didn't appreciate his wife's compassion and loyalty, and thought something must be wrong with her for loving him so much."

I wanna touch on this theme but I gotta run, I quoted it as a reminder to myself lol

What that guy did was seriously f'ed up...and I have a problem with the mentality that runs rampant out here that it is the other person's fault for being compassionate...as if by being good to someone it's your fault they turn around and treat you badly. To me this is not how decent caring people will see the situation, people who have exploitation and such on their agenda might use such logic though.

One thing that's interesting about this is how much his own confidence, or lack thereof, had to do with it. As far as infidelity, it never mattered what his weight was. There's a fetish that covers just about everyone on earth, and in the western world, one can always find who to shag.

So if he wanted to cheat, all he'd need to do is find the chubby chasers. He never needed to be skinny to get laid. It's just that the fat was something that he felt he could hide behind...like some people hide behind their job, other aspects of their looks, etc.

Somehow, the fat was what he leaned on, to keep him a good person in a way. When that was gone, he had lost his moral compass. I think sometimes people who choose bad partners often do so because they are hiding behind their partner.

Maybe dating a loving person is more power than they are comfortable with. They don't want the responsibility that comes with it, and they don't want to basically have someone's emotional life in their hands. They don't have the self confidence to feel that they are up to that kind of challenge.

I believe this is part of the payoff factor of dating a jerk. They get to be a martyr instead of making one of someone else.